June 20, 2013

"We don't want to have the use of our surplus moneys that I've just talked to you about of $150 million, being used for anything other than education and infrastructure." -Governor Herbert

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Good morning, everyone.

ERIK NEILSEN, KUED: Good morning, Governor.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Before we start, I'd like to make an opening statement, if I could, and give you some good news. It's always nice to have good news. And as you know, we're just getting ready to close out the books at the end of our fiscal year here at June 30th, and the good news is that we will have probably about $150 million in surplus money. The estimates are between 135 and 195 million dollars, so somewhere probably in the middle is what it'll end up being, which is indicative of the fact that our economy is growing, and growing quite healthily.

So the good news is we'll have that money to carry over, some of it will go into rainy day fund, some of it will be used for next year's budgets, whether it be education, transportation, infrastructure needs. Again, the fact that we have excess money is a good thing. I'd also like to say that tomorrow we'll have numbers come out on our labor report. And, as you know, our economy has been growing, that means people are getting more jobs, and the unemployment rate has been dropping. And I'm here to predict that tomorrow we'll find a lower number than our current 4.7 percent.

So some additional good news, again, indicative of the fact that our emphasis on growing the economy and creating economic opportunity is working. Now, that being said, I do recognize that we have some challenges ahead of us in many different categories. But I would like to emphasize today, as we head into the summer months and the holiday season, that we have a very dry, hot summer ahead of us. And fires, we already have had about 235 fires so far this year, of which 176 of them are man caused. That means 176 of them could have been prevented.

And so we want to, again, call upon the public out there to be conscious of the hotness, the dryness of the landscape out there. Use common sense and be careful, because we can prevent forest fires and wild land fires from occurring. We know the holiday season is coming up here with the 4th of July and the 24th of July, fireworks are part of that celebration, and we want people to have fun and enjoy them. But they're only legal from July 1st to July 7th, and July 21st to July 27th. So there's a restricted period of time when fireworks can be used. We'd encourage you to check with your local communities, because they have firework restrictions in the local communities. All state and federal lands are banned for fireworks currently. We want you to, again, use common sense, don't try to relight a dud, and try to use a firework that's not working correctly.

And lastly, make sure you have fire, or excuse me, have water available so when those fireworks go off, if you happen to inadvertently start a fire, you've got something to put it out with. So again, please, people, be careful out there. We don't want to have the use of our surplus moneys that I've just talked to you about of $150 million, being used for anything other than education and infrastructure. We don't want to use it for putting out fires and burn that money up. So thanks for helping us get that word out.

ERIK NIELSEN, KUED: Governor, on Wednesday the house Republican caucus voted to start an investigation into Attorney General John Swallow, but they stopped short of beginning an impeachment process. And I'm wondering if you think this decision draws out the process, and maybe even limits the effectiveness of state government.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, the good news is, there is a process. And the process that we've seen, there's a number of investigations already under way on checking to see if there's violations of state or federal law, there's investigations to see about violations that would take away the attorney general's license to practice law before the bar, elections violations are being investigated. So there's a process in place to ferret out the facts and find out what's really going on. I think there's frustration because of the delay, and particularly with the federal government investigation, we're all, I think, disappointed and frustrated because it's taken so long. I think the legislature is doing the right thing by being methodical, being careful. I think they are saying we need to start our own investigation under way, and this is the first step of that process.

Whether this is as fast or as aggressive as some would like, there's probably some debate on that issue. But there is due process that's available, and I applaud the legislature for being careful. There's really not a lot of precedent for this, certainly not in Utah. And there is precedent in other states of having an investigation to see if you need to go to impeachment, which is the question. But I think the legislature is handling this very good.

MAX ROTH, FOX13: In a sense, you're a bystander to all this, because there's not a role for government in these for Governor, pardon me in these processes. At the same time, though, you're the highest elected official in the state, and from your party. What do you see as your role in all this?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, my role is probably as a bystander, make sure that people are doing things are correctly, and I guess call them upon it if they're not doing things correctly. But I see things moving ahead appropriately, and I applaud that effort. Again, I think at the end of the investigations, and that's why we have them, we'll find out what the facts are, and separate the innuendo, hyperbole and rumor from the truth. And so I think we all want to have this thing over and completed as soon as possible. As I've said before, take as much time as is necessary, but not one day longer. Let's get to the end of this and find out what, in fact, the truth is.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: Well the legislature of the house voted, or the house Republicans voted, and evidently the Democrats agree, to call a special committee, form, create a special investigative committee. They believe they can do that, just they can meet and do it. But according to their counsel, there are legal questions. If however When they're in session their powers increase enormously. If asked, will you call them into special session for the purpose of forming an investigative committee, or for the purpose of making the legal arrangements necessary to go forward?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Yes, absolutely I will. I know there's some discussion whether they can do it without me calling them into a special session. Under the auspices of impeachment they can call themselves into special session. The question is, does this investigation reach that level? And there is some uncertainty on that. But I can tell you, it's a moot point for me. If they need to have a special session to create this investigative committee, I'm more than happy to call them into special session.

ROBERT GEHRKE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: Are you willing to commit to having the state investigators that have been participating in this investigation share their information with the committee right now? I mean just to kind of get them started, "Here's what we've gathered so far"?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: As is appropriate. Again, I don't want to jeopardize the investigation. Not only the investigation that the legislature is doing, but the investigations that other entities are doing. Or that the U.S. Attorney's Office, the federal government, Department of Justice, whether that's our local investigations going on with a couple of county attorneys, whether that's the investigations that will happen on the election potential, election law violation. So I wouldn't want to do this in such a way that we jeopardize those investigations, but that's going to be probably a very careful road to go down, and I expect that we'll have legal counsel to advise everybody on what would be the appropriate way to do this. That being said, the more open and transparent this investigation is, I think the better it is for everybody, because it really is about restoring trust back to the attorney general's office.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: Governor, as Eric said, this is not an impeachment investigation that could lead to impeachment. This is an investigation outside of that process, and that process would have to be started independent of this. In your mind, does that carry the same weight that an investigation that's part of an impeachment proceeding would? Is this going to carry the same weight in the public's mind, whatever the findings turn out to be?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I think it's the preliminary steps. It's the beginning of the process. And I think with all that's going on there is a lot of speculation out there as far as what is the truth? I think the legislature is wise in saying we need to find out whether, in fact, there's only smoke, or is there some fire out there? This preliminary investigation, I think, will lead them to take to see if they need to take the next step, which would be impeachment, which is a heightened investigation, which could lead to articles of impeachment, which means they would turn it over to the senate for some kind of trial.

So that's the process, and again, I think they're going through this in a methodical, deliberate, wise way to make sure that they are not over reacting. This is an elected official that's been put in office by the people. This is a serious situation. Again, without precedent in the state of Utah's history. And so I think we're wise to be careful in how we approach this so that we don't do something inappropriate in that process. Again, at the end of the day, we want to have trust restored to the attorney general's office, and we want to have a process that everybody feels is fair and open and transparent.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: So it sounds like you don't see a difference between actually them pulling themselves, calling themselves into an impeachment session, starting an investigation that way, or this way. In your mind it could result in the same thing.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Yeah. This is a crescendo. I mean it starts softer and it will end up louder, you know, using a musical term. So, again, this is the beginning. This is not the end. But this beginning will tell us where the next step is. So if there's step one, two, three, four, this is step one. We'll see what step one leads us to, if we need to take step two.

ROBERT GEHRKE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: When you said last week that you would have fired him if he worked for you, obviously you couldn't do that, you don't have that authority, you're separate constitutional officers. But there is a proposal discussed to make, to give you the authority to appoint the attorney general. Do you have any thoughts, have you thought about that since that proposal was first floated a few months ago?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, when I made the comments, just so you know, it had to do with, in fact, our ethics regulations that we have in the executive branch and the Governor's office. And I don't want to comment on the criminality, that's under investigation. But clearly the information that we've received by tape and by receipts, you know, would indicate a violation of our ethics, and I would have called in an employee of mine and said, "This is really serious." And probably requested a resignation at that time. That's a different category than is the attorney general, who is an elected official. And so again, remind me the rest of your question.

ROBERT GEHRKE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: The proposal to give you the authority to appoint the attorney general.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Oh, yeah. I, again, I think there's some wisdom in that. I think there's a discussion that we ought to have. I'm not prepared to come down and say I support appointment of the attorney general as opposed to election of the attorney general. Some states have it where it's an appointment. That's certainly the federal model. It seems to work. I don't know there's any silver bullet that cures every problem out there politically. But it's certainly something that ought to be considered and discussed. And we'll see where that discussion goes with the legislature. But I'm not prepared to weigh in one way or the other.

MAX ROTH, FOX13: Your phone rings, it's the attorney general on the line, he says, "Governor, what should I do?"

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, that's a tough question as far as what he should do, because I don't know all the facts that he knows. I don't know what his own legal counsel is telling him. Clearly there's a toll that's being taken upon himself, I would think, and his family, and that's got to be a consideration, what's in the best interests of his family and the challenge that's faced, which, you know, we can all recognize is probably a difficult situation. But at the end of the day it's what's in the best interests of the attorney general's office and the taxpayers, and he needs to take that into consideration. And I would say to the attorney general, if he asked, you need to take all of that into consideration and do what's in the best interests of the people of Utah. And I expect that's what he will do. I'm expecting him, in fact, to do that. Again, I don't know all the ramifications of what's being told him by his advisors, but at the end of the day it's what's in the best interest of the taxpayer.

ROBERT GEHRKE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: Do you feel like today the state agencies that are represented by the attorney general's office are suffering, or are getting the adequate representation that they should be?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Good question, Robert. I've actually asked my own staff people, my cabinet members, have we seen any diminution of service, and the answer has been a resounding no. Again, there's a lot of good people working in the attorney general's office, and whether the current attorney general is there in his office or not, the work continues on. So at least what we've observed has been a continuation of the effort in the attorney general's office, and although this is a distraction, I think, for everybody. I mean we're talking about it here in this press conference. We talked about really important stuff, you know, out there that ought to have some debate. And I expect the same thing is happening on capitol hill. As far as the work of the attorney general's office, as far as I can observe, it's continuing.

DAN BAMMES, KUER: Governor, I hope you don't mind talking about something else for just a moment. But a group of environmental organizations led by the Southern Utah Wilderness Alliance, is proposing a new national monument called Greater Canyonlands, set aside a large area of San Juan County around Canyonlands National Park as a new national monument. First of all, would you oppose that? And second, do you think there's a problem with the process of using the Antiquities Act to set aside big areas of federal land?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, we've already observed an abuse of the Antiquities Act when we had the Stair case Escalante Monument created. The Antiquities Act says we should use the very smallest area possible to protect some kind of pristine or national monument quality area. And the Stair case Escalante was anything but small. In fact, you could cut it in half and they'd still be the two largest monuments ever created by a president. The idea behind the Antiquities Act to protect pristine areas and places that ought to be preserved is a good one.

I think that this proposal, though, is a design to skirt the law where congress creates wilderness and creates these areas that ought to be protected, and because they can't get congress to do it they're trying to find some way to have some friendly administration to create a monument that otherwise would not happen. That being said, I think there's opportunities out there, and I testified before congress, there are areas of Utah that ought to be preserved. There ought to be wilderness created. And there ought to be areas that ought to be, in fact, developed.

We ought to find those areas and aggregate them together so that we can have responsible environmental development of our natural resources, and preserve and protect those areas that not to have any development occur at all. And so land swaps, which we haven't done for a long time, we ought to be creating opportunities through the congress to, in fact, have a balanced approach to the management of our public lands, which is what I've proposed from the very beginning. So I think there's opportunity to have discussion. I'm not sure the use of the Antiquities Act in this case is the correct use of the Antiquities Act.

ROBERT GEHRKE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: Why aren't we doing more land swaps? I mean it seems like it's been about eight years since there's been the last one, there were some negotiations that I think broke down and both sides kind of walked away from it. Is it too poison right now, the atmosphere, to get sides together to agree on these sorts of things?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I think there's some out there that don't want to have resolution to the conflict. You know, for some the agenda is to increase conflict. Some of it's a fund raising mechanism, as we have this conflict going out there, we can petition our supporters for more money and support. Look at all the problems we're having here in Utah. I expect the extremes on both sides of that like the battle. For the reasonable 80 percent, you know, kind of in the middle, middle left and middle right, I think we want to have resolution.

We've created an outdoor recreation office as part of our attempt in my administration to say a big part of our economic opportunity in Utah is to take advantage of tourism and travel and outdoor recreation capabilities which we have uniquely so in Utah. The resolution of the RS 2477 roads and rights of way, it needs to happen. We have people that oppose that. And yet we need to have that to happen so we can find out, where can we, in fact, have wilderness? Wilderness by definition is roadless. And we have got local government officials and private entities out there saying, "These were roads, and we have a right to maintain them." And so we've got to have that discussion and debate. We can't resolve it by negotiation, hence we have to go to court to resolve it. It doesn't have to be adversarial, by the way. It's just a mechanism to resolve the discussion on roads and rights of way in Utah. That will help us determine where we can have wilderness.

I agree with you, we ought to have more land swaps. There ought to be more opportunities for us to find compromise and find aggregation of lands that ought to be preserved, as well as aggregation of lands that ought to be developed.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: A study out today from Harvard says that air pollution may be related to autism. Pregnant women who breathe mercury and particulates, diesel particulates, seem to have a greater chance of having autistic babies. You're leading a charge on air pollution. Have you looked at this study? Does it lead you to either more energy or a different direction?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, Rod, I think everybody understands that air quality and having bad air quality is a health issue. And you know, even though we've cleaned up the air over time, as I've said it's still too dirty. And we have the challenge of, uniquely so, of a topography and meteorology that's unique to the Wasatch Front, and compounding that we have one of the fastest growing states in America. People are moving here. They like the quality of life. They like the economic opportunity. That means we have some even more concern about the air quality as we go forward. The study in question, I have read parts of it, I haven't read the whole thing, but I do have a copy of it. And I do note that the relationship to autism is a concern for many. And I share that concern.

It's an older study. It went back to, I think finished in 2002, and the two that are linked most to the autism are diesel emissions and mercury. That's not a big part of our air quality issue. We have air quality problems but diesel emissions and mercury are not a big part of our air quality issues. That being said, we have a concerted effort, and we are in fact ratcheting that up to do what we can to clean up the air. Whether it's in industry and commercial point sources, we'll work with them on regulations, whether it's us using more mass transit, recognizing that certainly during inversions that the biggest part of the pollution comes out of tail pipes, state agencies are doing things, we're changing our fleets over. Idling restrictions, more travel wise for our employees. So all of us have a role to play, if we really are serious about cleaning up the air, and we are.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: Another study, an earlier study done by the state, showed that the sources of pollution may be different from what we thought. More from wood stoves, less from tail pipes. Do you have any plans either for a bill to restrict wood stoves, or for further study to follow up on that?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: You're speaking of the University of Utah study, I'm assuming.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: Yes.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: And again, I think that does give us kind of a pause, because that's something we had not assumed before. I don't know that it changes our overall goal, but it may change where our emphasis needs to be. And again, for we, the people, we're kind of causing more of the pollution than we would like to believe. We would like to find that single source out there, that industry source that we can have them change what they're doing and everything's all better. That isn't going to happen. It's going to have to be an all of the above, a very comprehensive approach for a multi-pronged attack, where everybody's got to be a part of this or we won't get the solution. So that just emphasizes the fact that it needs to be multi-pronged in our approach.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: Sorry, Governor. Does the autism study, though, put more pressure on the state maybe to take more action? I know you talk a lot about all of us having a responsibility, but studies like this, does it not create more pressure for the state to maybe create some more restrictions on us?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I think it just heightens our own awareness that this is a health issue, and people are being impacted. Again, it's not just autism but it's people that have lung diseases, pulmonary problems, you know, asthma, elderly. Anybody that has some kind of respiratory issue.

So again, whether it be ozone, whether it be PM 2.5 particulates, the air quality has got to be a health concern, first and foremost. And so I think it just helps us emphasize what we're doing, and gives us more impetus to get some things done. And at the end of the day, as I've always said, if we don't do something with the air quality it will hurt our economy. We won't be able to attract businesses or grow businesses.

DAN BAMMES, KUER: Spun off the U care organization, as a private group, now, and of course we've got the clean air challenge going on right now. But are these voluntary efforts really going to be enough to, you know, reduce the number of red air days that we have along the Wasatch Front?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: It's not all voluntary, though. Again, we're trying to get people to voluntarily do things and change their lifestyles, change their own habits. Again, I'd liken it to people, you know, years before, if you're old as Rod, people, there's a time when people didn't fasten seatbelts. You know, didn't have seatbelts in their automobiles. But we learned over time that that was not a good thing. So we put seatbelts in and then we started fastening them. Same with recycling. You know there's a time when people didn't recycle. Now most all of us have some kind of recycling bin whether it's for newspapers or aluminum cans, or whatever. That's becoming a more and more a part of our life.

Well, the same thing is true about our driving habits. We ought to be using mass transit. We've spent millions and millions of dollars on Front Runner and Trax. We have opportunities to be a little wiser in our trips, you know, trip chain, and not take three trips to the grocery store every day, maybe do it once or twice a week. Those are habits that come because of awareness, and then we change our habits and our conduct and improve air quality.

So I'm hopeful that this U care program, now spun off to a nonprofit, private organization, bringing in all stake holders that will have recommendations, we'll find out and increase awareness. That may translate into more regulation. But we have regulations in place now, we're working with our Department of Environmental Quality, with our industry places, to say, "What is the plan for you to reduce emissions over the next twelve months?" So we're working very hand in glove with industry, commercial, business people, as well as what we can do as just the general populace out there.

ROBERT GEHRKE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: Governor, there were some revelations recently about NSA tracking phone calls. We have obviously the big NSA center out in Bluffdale. Do those sorts of activities square with Utah values? And can you square, reconcile those, those two sort of contrasts?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well I think all of us are concerned about a 1984 scenario of big brother, you know, spying on us. And I share those concerns. We always have had those concerns about government that's too big, and maybe too intrusive in our lives. And this is just one aspect of that intrusiveness. But again, let me just emphasize, there's no evidence that that's actually happening. There's accusations. There's certainly a national discussion going on, which I think is healthy, but there's no evidence of anything that's being done wrong by NSA here in Utah or any other place. This is not the only installation they have for storage of data. And clearly this is a post 9/11 world. The bad guys are out there to get us, and they've got technology. We need to keep up with it commensurate with the technology as far as our counter intelligence to make sure that we are safe.

In some ways it's a balance. You know, what are we going to give up in privacy in order to obtain security? And you know, it's probably a difficult balancing act. I'm confident, I'm hopeful that our congress is having appropriate oversight on these activities, as they should have, and that people are not breaking the law in, particularly somebody inside the system that's breaking the law. If there's somebody breaking the law, they ought to be prosecuted and that ought to be changed and corrected. But I think the discussion is good. I see no evidence currently of anything, any wrong doing that's taken place.

ERIK NEILSEN, KUED: Governor, we have just about a minute left. I'm wondering, we won't have a news conference next month so I'm wondering if you'd like to make a comment to our viewers about the upcoming holidays, Independence Day and Pioneer Day.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, thank you, and I'll miss you guys next month. But you know, we have a great state with a great legacy. We live in a great country with a great legacy. These celebrations are designed to remind us to kind of recharge our own batteries and our own patriotism and say, "Thank the good Lord for those founding fathers who were wise, that came together, compromised interestingly enough, used the word compromise and created the most important document in the history of the world, our own United States Constitution."

We have the same kind of legacy with our own pioneer forefathers who came here and carved out of a wilderness, and said, "We're going to make the desert blossom as a rose." And again it's good for us all, whether you're a sixth generation pioneer, like myself, or a first generation pioneer, we have a great legacy here in Utah. I'll just conclude by saying, the first Governor of Utah, Brigham Young, who said, "This is the right place." I'm the 17th Governor of Utah, and I say, "This is still the right place." We're making this desert blossom as a rose in every way, our quality of life, our economic development, this is the right place, and we ought to be appreciative of those great people who have gone before us. Let's us do our part so that those who follow us will say, "We thank the good Lord for those people who went before us too, our immediate ancestors."

ERIK NEILSEN, KUED: Governor, thanks for joining us this month.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Thank you.

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