October 23, 2014

"The public clearly is behind the concept of Healthy Utah. Eighty percent believe it's better than doing nothing, seventy percent believe it's better than Medicaid Expansion." -Governor Herbert

 October 24, 2014

 

KUED presents "The Governor's Monthly News Conference," an exchange between Utah reporters and Governor Gary Herbert. This program was recorded earlier.

 

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GOVERNOR HERBERT: Good morning.

 

DAN BAMMES, KUER:  Good morning, Governor. Understand you have an opening statement.

 

GOVERNOR HERBERT:  I do. Thank you very much. An honor to be with you as always, and thanks for coming.

 

I want to give you an update, if I could, on the Healthy Utah program. You know we've been involved in long negotiations and we've come to really agreement with the Obama administration on what we can do here in Utah. I think they're giving us more flexibility than has been given to any other state in America. And we're breaking some new ground.

 

That being said, I've received some suggestions, some recommendations from some of the Legislature, which we're trying to keep informed, as we are able, as we've gone through this negotiation. And they've come up with some good ideas and some suggestions. We also have found that we need to have a 30-day comment period as per the law, for federal and state comment opportunities. I'm a little concerned now as we are getting into the election time and then into the holiday cycle.

 

I know the need for the Legislature to have opportunities to have appropriate due diligence, to dissect it, to understand the pros and the cons and particularly to get public input. And that really is a necessity, I think, for them to understand the will of the people, and to represent the people correctly. I am concerned that we cannot do that in a special session, and so today I'm just taking a special session off of the table.

 

This is something that we'll want to put on a general session. I'll be meeting with leadership in the Legislature mid part of November. We'll talk about a lot of things that will be brought up during the legislative session and of course; the Healthy Utah program will be at the top of that list. I think this will enable the Legislature to have the appropriate amounts of time necessary, committee hearings, to hear from the public and get input on the value of the Healthy Utah approach.

 

So I feel like we're on the right road and I'm confident—I really am optimistic and believe that by the end of the legislative session in 2015 that we will have a program in place which will deal with those people who need government assistance healthcare, and we'll have a program in place that we can all agree upon.

 

 

 

ROD DECKER, KUTV-2: Can you tell us some of the provisions in the tentative agreement you have with the Obama administration?

 

GOVERNOR HERBERT: The concepts we've talked about before really were based on trying to provide more individual responsibility. To have people take ownership of their own healthcare. If an individual doesn't care about, it's hard to get other people motivated to take on that responsibility in behalf of the individual. And so having them pay part of the premium, having them have larger co-payments than would be in a traditional Medicaid program, are part and parcel of this effort to have some skin in the game and have people really weigh and consider what they need to do.

 

For example, going to the emergency room is typically about $8 under Medicaid expansion. Under the Healthy Utah, it's $50. And so, again, people will not be using the emergency room for just their normal healthcare needs. They'll be going to a doctor; they'll access it through their own private insurance program and do the typical healthcare assessment with a doctor's office visit.

 

We've talked in terms of individual responsibility, particularly when it came to the work effort. We've never proposed in the beginning that a person had to have a job in order to access healthcare. But we have said that people have to take on the responsibility of getting a job if you're able-bodied and, if you're underemployed, to get a better job.

 

Medicaid, for example, was never designed to be a permanent help. It was designed to help people as they transition from lower income until they got a better job.

That's why it's a program for those who are in poverty. And we want to amplify that with a work effort saying that when you get healthcare, we're also going to give you the opportunity to get better training and better skills so you can get a job, and a better job. And we'll have the appropriate balance, I think, with what we've negotiated with the administration, have the appropriate balance of carrot and stick to make sure that that, in fact, happens so--

 

GLEN MILLS, ABC-4:  What did you have to give in your negotiations with the feds?

 

GOVERNOR HERBERT:  A lot of time and effort. It's a matter of convincing people that this is a good program. And I would, in fact, say it's a better program than the alternative of Medicaid Expansion. This really is an alternative to Medicaid Expansion. It does address the same group of people, but it takes the money we've already paid, as we receive it back, and puts it into, I think, a program which will give more choice, better access, and better healthcare outcomes for the recipients.

 

As well as the benefit of helping people to help themselves by getting employed if you're able-bodied. If you're not able-bodied, we understand. There's the medically frail and the people out there that won't be able to work. But even in giving them healthcare, we can help them rehabilitate so that they are able to get a job and so the two things should work in--tangentially together so we actually get a better outcome. I think this is significantly better than the alternative of Medicaid Expansion.

 

RICHARD PIATT, KSL-5:  Well, part of what attracted people to the Medicaid Expansion was that the federal government was going to grant states a significant amount of money in order to get the program rolling. What does Utah get? Did you have to sacrifice any amount of that federal grant money in order to create our own program?

 

GOVERNOR HERBERT:  No. Again, the good news for the taxpayers of Utah which certainly ought to be respected, they are being taxed under the Affordable Care Act about $680 million in Utah. That money goes to Washington, D.C. If we had a Medicaid Expansion program, $258 million of that money would come back to Utah to go into Medicaid and Medicaid Expansion. I've just said there is a better way to spend the money.

 

I'd just as soon Utah direct the spending of that money as opposed to the federal government. I think we're better at it. We understand our people, our culture, better than they do. And so we're taking the same $258 million and redirecting it into the Healthy Utah program, which is more of a private insurance program with more individual responsibility and also a work effort that's a requirement as part of this overall program. So we're dealing with the whole person, not just their healthcare needs but their workforce needs also. And again, it's going to help them take on individual responsibility and have a better healthcare outcome at the end of the day.

 

RICHARD PIATT, KSL-5:  Will the state have to budget also for Healthy Utah in addition to the $258 million?

 

GOVERNOR HERBERT:  No. No, it's--there's no additional cost to taxpayers. And let me again just emphasize, this is a pilot program. There's a lot of speculation about what it will do or what it will not do. And it is just that, speculation. We don't really know. So the idea of this being a pilot program appeals, I think, to everybody, including the Obama administration and we will test the theory.

 

We'll see what the cost would be to the state of Utah over the pilot program period of time and ongoing into the future. We'll also get data to find out are we, in fact, helping people better? Are they getting better quality of life? Are they getting better healthcare, better outcomes? Are we helping people get employed? And what about the federal government, are they willing to keep their promises? Are they capable of honoring their commitments? Well, that's part of the reason this pilot program where we can say, "Let's test it," and we'll find out what the data actually shows as opposed to just speculation.

 

ROD DECKER, KUTV-2: We will have forgone, I take it, $258 million 1 year if

we--had we done this last January or when you first proposed it, had everyone rushed--jumped aboard, we would have had an extra year and an extra $258 million.

Is that correct?

 

GOVERNOR HERBERT:  That would be correct. We don't know exact how it's going to play out as we move forward. We're still--that's part of our negotiation too. But there's no question that there are some monies that we've paid that we will not recoup. And I understand the challenge politically; I understand the challenge with our culture, our uniqueness of Utah. We have a desire to be self-determinate in how we address our own unique problems. That's what we're doing here with Healthy Utah. But I'd rather do it right, than do it quick. We need to find a way to get across the goal line and have success here. And I believe we've done it as judiciously as possible and I'm optimistic we're going to have a positive result at the end of this legislative session.

 

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS:  Governor, though, you say you want to do this right rather than quick but it seems like the longer you wait, the more opposition builds. Today, there's a article online in "Forbes Magazine," critical of your program, pointing out some of the concerns lawmakers have raised about this being straight-up Medicaid Expansion, something that they just will not go for. And we saw that last session. How hard a sell is this really going to be in a regular session?

 

GOVERNOR HERBERT:  You know, I think it's more likely to be approved in a regular session than it is in a special session just because I think there'll be more opportunities for public comment. The public clearly is behind the concept of Healthy Utah. Eighty percent believe it's better than doing nothing, seventy percent believe it's better than Medicaid Expansion. So the will of the people and in a Republic, a representing form of government, I think that will win out. But I understand, you know, there are pros and cons. There are legitimate issues to probably be opposed to it. I don't particularly like the "Forbes" article, which I think is an amalgamation of distortion, innuendo and misrepresentation. That being the case, you know, those will be vetted and the closer we get to the goal line, the stiffer the opposition will become.

 

That's part of the give and take of the politics of it. But I believe that when people--the more they know about the Healthy Utah program, the more doubts will, you know, go away, the more understanding that there is, the more support we will receive. It is the best alternative out there. I have not seen or heard anything that's better than what we have on the table in behalf of the people of Utah respecting the taxpayers, helping those who need some assistance to help themselves, and to get off of government assistance into a better job. It really is a good approach and I think commonsense in its effort.

 

 

 

BOB BERNICK, UTAH POLICY.COM:  If some of the GOP leaders just say to you--some of the GOP leaders in the house, in the Senate, just say to you, "We're not going to do this. If you call us into session, we'll come in, bang the gavel, turn around, and walk out"?

 

GOVERNOR HERBERT:  Nobody has said that to me at all. It's a matter of what can we do together to get this done. I recognize the Legislature has a role to play in this effort. You know, I can't just run over the top of them. I don't think that's good policy, number one. We do have laws on the books requiring me to go to the Legislature when we take these large amounts of money from the federal government. To make sure that they're being spent appropriately is the idea behind that statute. So we're going to work very closely with the Legislature and build consensus. I believe that once everybody understands the pros and the cons and all there is to know about the Healthy Utah program that the vast majority of people in the Legislature will say, “You know what? This is a commonsense approach. It makes sense for the taxpayer; it makes sense for the people of Utah. Let's try it out."

 

ROD DECKER, KUTV-2:  If the Legislature adopts Healthy Utah, will Utah essentially have made its deal with Affordable Care Act? Will we then be done what we're going to do or are there things to look--that we still have to worry about?

 

GOVERNOR HERBERT:  No. The issue that's before us sometimes is, "Well, is this somehow mean you support the Affordable Care Act?" The answer is no, I don't support the Affordable Care Act. I think it was flawed in its inception. I've been highly critical of the fact that the Obama administration not one time even addressed the issue with the states, didn't ask the governors and yet we're the ones that have to implement most of it.

 

I think the fact that it's so partisan, not one Republican vote, was a mistake by the administration in trying to take care of a healthcare issue that impacts one-seventh of our GDP. I think the Affordable Care Act is flawed and needs fixing, repealing, or replacing. All of the above can work for me.

 

That being said, we have lemons, and I'm trying to make lemonade out of it. And it may be not as good a lemonade as some would like, but it's better than just having the lemons. And I have to deal with the here and the now and the reality of what we have as laws on the books. And respect the fact that our people, whether you like it or don't like it, are sending large amounts of money to Washington, D.C., in new taxes under the Affordable Care Act. Now if we can repeal and replace, we'll deal with that future. If we can modify and improve, we'll deal with that future.

 

 

 

Elections this November will probably give us a little bit more of an adjustment as far as what's the future going to bring when it comes to the Affordable Care Act. Even President Obama himself says, "I know there are problems with the Affordable Care Act that need fixing." So I'm not a big fan of the Affordable Care Act, but I know what the law is and I know what we're paying and I want to make sure we get a bigger bang for the buck.

 

With the Healthy Utah program I believe that to be the case than if we just do a Medicaid Expansion or do nothing, and leave people kind of in a unfair situation that's been created by the Affordable Care Act and the Supreme Court decision.

 

RICHARD PIATT, KSL-5:  So speaking of following the law, to kind of shift gears here just a little bit, Governor, the state has been forced really to adhere to the federal court's ruling recognizing same-sex marriage. Can you give us an update perhaps on how it's going with state agencies to update their programs, benefits, that kind of thing, to accommodate this change?

 

GOVERNOR HERBERT:  Well, it's complex in itself as far as the rollout. Again, the law has changed in Utah. I'm disappointed that the Supreme Court did not take the case. I think that was a mistake. I think it's left people unsatisfied on both sides of this issue and I think it's disconcerting to many people. I do believe it's a state right issue. I do believe that the states have the right to make the definition of marriage and each state can define it as they so choose through their elected representatives.

 

That being the case, I have to deal again with the law that's on the books. And with the Supreme Court speaking by saying, "We're not going to hear it," the lower courts' orders are in place and so we're in the process of going through that process of changing and adjusting to this new law. And I've not heard any complaints or problems. I expect agencies are making the adjustments necessary. There are still a lot of things you hear the legislators talking about, do we need to modify the statutes and change verbiage here and nomenclature there, and I expect there'll be some of that discussion coming forward in the upcoming legislative session.

 

RICHARD PIATT, KSL-5:  Will you support legislation that some lawmakers may come up with that are basically roundabout ways to sort of undermine the federal court's ruling?

 

GOVERNOR HERBERT:  Well, I don't know that we want to undermine anything. I think there may be some concerns about making sure that we strengthen religious freedom. I expect that's going to be a topic of discussion and I think, again, people on all sides of this issue can understand the need to make sure that we are clear when it comes to religious freedoms and our ability to exercise it and our constitutional rights there.

 

 

 

So I expect there'll be some discussion and debate about those kinds of issues and how do we do it and what do we do and where does it need to be shored up. So I look at more of a positive reinforcement of religious freedom as opposed to undermining, you know, the rights of same-sex couples.

 

RICHARD PIATT, KSL-5:  So are you accepting the change right now, at this point, or do you have someone from the attorney general's office looking into ways that we can maybe de facto appeal the court's ruling somehow or are you done with it?

 

GOVERNOR HERBERT:  Well, I don't know that we're done with the issue because I think the people themselves may have some concerns and through their elected representatives may want to make modifications or adjustments. I--who knows?

That's just pure crystal ball gazing. I am dealing with the law. I'm the executive branch. I don't create law, I'm the executive branch, I have to implement. And we will implement based on the law that we have before us.

 

GLENN MILLS, ABC4:  Governor, you and the attorney general both talked on this issue about getting finality. Do you believe that the way the Supreme Court handled this did not achieve that, and there are doors open to challenge the ruling and pick it apart as some people are suggesting?

 

GOVERNOR HERBERT:  Absolutely. There's not finality until it's final. And clearly, the Supreme Court, by not addressing it, has left the door open. And depending on what happens in other district courts, the sixth district court, for example, a lot of pundits are thinking that maybe that will, in fact, uphold the state right to define marriage.

 

That would then probably create a crisis that the Supreme Court would deem necessary to hear the case. Again, I think it's just disappointing on an issue this large, of this magnitude, that either, one, it's not being addressed legislatively, which is how it's probably the best way to do it so that you actually get consensus from the public and certainty and clarity and people feel like they've had an opportunity to weigh in.

 

The second is in court--in fact, the courts and the fact we haven't had the Supreme Court really make a decision at their level leaves all sides of this issue without clarity and certainty. There is, in fact, opportunity for change. And that's disappointing.

DAN BAMMES, KUER:  Governor, the U.S. Air Force has proposed an expansion of its test and training range in western Utah by about 700,000 acres. It's 1000 square miles. And Senator Hatch has proposed an amendment to the defense-spending bill that would do this. Is that something that we should implement immediately with the passage of the defense bill or should we take a little longer to consider this and especially its impact on communities like the Goshutes and in the Snake Valley?

 

GOVERNOR HERBERT:  Well, I think we need to do the appropriate due diligence and make sure we understand the ups and the downs of that proposal. It's really--I've just heard about it recently myself. Nobody's vetted it with me. It is more of a federal issue. I think we have the best test and training range in North America here in Utah. I've talked to pilots out there at Hill Air Force Base and they all concur that this is a great place here in Utah for their testing and training. So I understand the benefit we have here and we certainly have some wide-open spaces that maybe could be a complement to what we already have. But I'm not prepared to take a position of pro or con on it.

 

I don't know enough about the pros or the cons. Clearly, whatever we do needs to have input from the public, those who are going to be impacted, the Indian tribes and others out there, people that have property and adjacent, you know, we need to hear from them so we understand what the ramifications of this expansion would be.

 

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS:  Governor, the Prison Relocation Commission, the legislators' group looking at a new site for the Draper Prison, has narrowed their choices down to four. We understand one is in Utah County, three are in Salt Lake County. At least one of those proposed sites, the residents there absolutely do not want it. What's your thought on relocating the prison at this point, especially if it's going to stay relatively close to where it is now? Is that still a good idea to spend that kind of money to buy new land and build an entirely new prison when there's 700 acres right there?

 

GOVERNOR HERBERT:  You know, I'm impressed that you know four locations that I don't think have been released to the public yet. So you're snooping around, maybe you're working extra overtime there but--

 

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS:  Tell my editors, Governor.

 

GOVERNOR HERBERT:  You know, the concept of relocating the prison is a good one because we need to have a more modern prison that has better programming, that we have the ability to incarcerate appropriately and rehabilitate where we have opportunity. So the motivation for this is really to have a better prison. The one we have there is just obsolete. And so you can remodel and rebuild in site or you can start from scratch and build probably a more effective prison system. So I think that's true.

 

The second part is then where do we relocate it. I expect that our committee out there is going to do a good job of assessing and making recommendations.

Whether there's one in Utah County and three in Salt Lake County, I'm not certain, but I expect that we'll need to have a place that is conveniently located for the workers, for the volunteers, that has minimal disruption to surrounding neighbors, you know, and recognize that where we once were in very rural parts of Salt Lake County, at the point of the mountain, is now is, you know, surrounded by housing and development. And I expect that with the growth of Utah, we need to understand that wherever we put it, let's delay this encroachment as much as we can, so that location is critical for convenience and yet seclusion, and not impacting. And I expect that there is going to be a number of places, whether it's two or three or four, that will qualify under those parameters.

 

The other thing is then how do we pay for it. It's, you know--the estimates I keep hearing kicked around, is about $450 million to build a new prison and, again, there's no question in my mind that we can structure funding to take care of that. Probably a phased-in project over maybe three different phases that we could do that with a combination of bonding and cash flow that we have. And then we have the ability, in fact, to develop the vacated property, which has potential to bring in hundreds of millions of dollars and literally billions of dollars over time with the additional revenue that would come from commerce and development and business.

So I think the numbers work out, is my bottom line.

 

BOB BERNICK, UTAH POLICY.COM:  What do you think about lessening the penalties for drug dealers or, if not dealers, at least for drug use and so we can cut down on the number of inmates?

 

GOVERNOR HERBERT:  You know, I think any way we can find a more effective way of helping people to become productive members of society, we ought to look into it. You know, historically, we've warehoused people. Then we've developed programs to help rehabilitate them and get them so that they have skills where they can go back and integrate back into society. Certainly, drug courts have been, I think, a major step forward in helping us to treat the problem. And if they've got addiction and substance abuse problems, let's treat that rather than just put them in a cell and lock them up and throw away the key.

 

So the idea of making some adjustments there is, I think, one that has some wisdom behind it. The Pew Center is one that's been advocating for maybe an enhancement of drug courts and an enhancement of treatments as opposed to incarceration. I think it's a discussion worth having. I'm not proposed to make any kind of personal recommendations as far as where we should reduce it from a felony conviction to a misdemeanor, but I think that's part and parcel of the discussion.

 

 

 

RICHARD PIATT, KSL-5:  But Governor, I think there's a study that was released that said that most of Utah's prison population or it's getting close to most of Utah's prison population being sex offenders because basically no one knows what to do with them. Do you feel the same way about sex offenders? That they deserve to be rehabilitated and go back into society and be productive, if possible?

 

GOVERNOR HERBERT:  I believe everybody should have the opportunity to be rehabilitated. The question is always, "Can you rehabilitate?" I mean, that's where we have division of opinion. And sex offenders are one of those that really cause a lot of concerns and I expect there are some that are able to be rehabilitated and some that maybe is not. That's beyond my purview as far as making those kinds of determinations. But again, the concept of saying can we rehabilitate people so they can become productive members of society after they've paid their debt to society, if they've been punished for whatever crime they've done, I think, is a legitimate one. And we ought to see what we can do to help people.

 

RYAN CUNNINGHAM, KCPW 88.3 FM:  Would you support LGBT legislation on a statewide level?

 

GOVERNOR HERBERT:  What do you mean by LGBT legislation?

 

RYAN CUNNINGHAM, KCPW 88.3 FM:  In housing and employment?

 

GOVERNOR HERBERT:  Non-discrimination?

 

RYAN CUNNINGHAM, KCPW 88.3 FM:  Right.

 

 

GOVERNOR HERBERT:  I've supported it from a local standpoint. We have, I think, 20-some-odd-plus cities that have done it and I think that's a way that's evolved and I think that's an appropriate way to have it continue.

 

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS:  Even with the same-sex marriage ruling that stands now, gay and lesbian married couples may be looking for housing, employment, throughout the state?

 

GOVERNOR HERBERT:  Yeah, I don't know that that changes anything as far as discrimination goes. I don't think we should discriminate at all. The question is what does the laws we put on the book to prevent discrimination. I don't think LGBT people should be discriminated in housing and employment at all. So the question really is what law would we want to put in the books that's universal or it fits everybody and I think that's up for debate. I like the fact we've evolved locally in taking care of that issue and I think that's--should continue.

 

 

 

DAN BAMMES, KUER:  Governor, we're pretty much out of time. Thank you very much.

 

We'd like to remind you the "Governor's News Conference" is streamed online so you can join us next month at kued.org and for transcripts of this and past editions, go to kued.org.

 

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This has been "The Governor's Monthly News Conference. "An archive of transcripts, video, and audio is available online. Please visit kued.org. Thanks for joining us.

 

 

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