March 23, 2015

"Education funding was a big change and we had significant amounts of money put into education, which I think was a great thing." Governor Herbert

 

 

KUED presents "The Governor's Monthly News Conference," an exchange between Utah reporters and Governor Gary Herbert. This program was recorded earlier.

 

 GOVERNOR HERBERT: Good morning. Great to be with you, as always.

 

I see we all survived the Legislative session and it's good to be with you. Let me just mention, if I can, kind of recap the Legislative session from my point of view and you might have some questions, but--one, I can tell you in my time around the Hill, I don't know that we've had a session where we had so many big issues. We had a lot of issues but we had some really big heavy-lift issues.

 

Education funding was a big change and we had significant amounts of money put into education, which I think was a great thing. Actually, about $10 million more

than what I'd originally asked for. Not quite the way I wanted to slice it up and put it in the WPU but, again, the amount of money, $510 million to $515 million of new money was a significant lift.

 

The transportation funding which, I think, was a significant issue, which puts us on a trajectory now to be able to fund not only capacity by 2040, but also maintenance of our roads that we are building. And so I think that was a significantly big issue.

 

We had one that was not quite as, I think, appreciated by the public, was the criminal justice reform, where we actually had significant effort in changing penalties and classifications for crime, particularly drug possession. More of an emphasis on programming, and helping us to eliminate and reduce recidivism. So we're not just warehousing prisoners but actually trying to rehabilitate them. I think that was a significantly big issue that we got taken care of.

 

And, of course, one that's in the history books, is our anti-discrimination religious freedom bill, which, again, was a significantly big issue and without--not without controversy but, again, the Legislature did a nice job in coming together and, I think, threading that needle in a way that most sides are, at least, comfortable with.

 

Not everybody's happy with everything but, I think, they're comfortable with where we've been able to come together. I am disappointed we were not able to address the alternative to Medicaid Expansion, Healthy Utah, but we have put ourselves, I think, on a trajectory to resolve that issue. I'm optimistic that working together with the leadership in the House and the Senate, that the Executive Branch in concert can find compromise and can find resolution to that issue, which I think is significantly important.

 

So we have left a little bit of unfinished work there of some of the big-ticket items.

But overall, I think the Legislative session was a good one, and I applaud the Legislature for getting some good work done and, you know, responding to, I think, the needs of the people in a very good way. So good to be with you, but I applaud the Legislature for good service for the past 45 days.

 

ERIC NIELSEN, KUED: Governor, HB 11 is probably the hot issue right now.

It's the addition of execution by firing squad if lethal injection is not available.

And I'm wondering how you're thinking about this bill. And are you leaning towards signing it or vetoing it?

 

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I'm leaning towards signing it. And I'll tell you why. You know, the debate really is more than just the firing squad. It's really should we have capital punishment or not. And we're one of 32 states that believe in capital punishment for the most heinous, despicable crimes: aggravated murder. It doesn't happen often where we have executions in Utah. We've had seven over the last 40 years. I hope we don't have any. I hope people don't commit those kinds of crimes that we have to, in fact, utilize an execution. But that is the law of Utah, and so when we go through that process and a jury renders a verdict of guilty and a capital punishment offense is required, we have to have the ability to carry that out.

 

Most states have some kind of fallback provision. We prefer lethal injection. We would hope that if--one, we hope we don't have to do that but if we do, it ought to be through lethal injection. But we're finding that it's hard to find those drugs that are necessary to, in fact, perform lethal injection. And so we need to have some kind of a fallback position and the firing squad's what we've chosen. Other states have got hanging. Other states have electric chair, gas chamber, and some others have firing squad too. So again, it's not our preference. But we need to have a fallback so we can carry out the court order.

 

MICHELLE PRICE, ASSOCIATED PRESS: Governor, have you spoken with Director Cook from the Department of Corrections about how he would go about obtaining lethal injection drugs when we would have our next execution, whenever that is?

 

GOVERNOR HERBERT: It's an ongoing quest. Again, for those who are opposed to the death penalty, I understand that debate. And we ought to say, you know, that's a legitimate discussion, should we have capital punishment at all? But that being said, if we're going to have it, most people think lethal injection is the most humane way to do it. Some have got in their provisions in other states, that if, in fact, lethal injection is found to be unconstitutional, the fallback position will be, in fact, you know, electric chair or gas chamber or firing squad. Or hanging, you know, so there's different methods of fallback. I believe that we really have a high bar in Utah when it comes to the constitutional requirements to have executions and capital punishment. The challenge we have is some out there that have been producing these drugs are not wanting to be involved with it. I would hope those people who advocate against the death penalty say if you do have the death penalty, we need to provide these lethal injection drugs so we can carry it out that way.

 

BEN WINSLOW FOX -13:  Is it time that Utah starts having a larger discussion about capital punishment and whether we should have it in the first place, given the time, the appeals, the expense?

 

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Yeah, I think any time's a time to have a discussion on any issue and certainly because of our need to have a fallback position so we can carry out the court order, you know, people expect the court's instructions to be followed. So it certainly is an opportune time to have that discussion. We certainly have a lot of people throughout the country that think that capital punishment is not appropriate. Thirty-two states do. And our bar is very high in Utah. Aggravated murder, it's not just for simple murder. But it's for the most egregious, despicable, heinous crimes possible with a jury verdict. And so we certainly surpass the bar that's been set to make it constitutional in Utah, and that's why we don't have many of them. Like I say, seven in the last nearly 41 years.

 

MICHELLE PRICE, ASSOCIATED PRESS: But Governor, do you know if Dr. Cook or, excuse me, Director Cook, could even get lethal injection drugs or are we looking at we might end up going through this fallback route? Do we--are you even certain--

 

GOVERNOR HERBERT: It's been an issue for the state prison for some time and there are avenues to get the drugs and certainly there was a shortage of them.

They're not readily available. We'd have to anticipate, you know, when an execution would come. I don't see anything on the near horizon. Maybe in the next year and a half or 2 years, there may be one. We have eight people on death row in Utah, and they will take whatever steps are necessary to obtain those drugs. So I'm not anticipating the firing squad being utilized but it will be the fallback position.

 

ROD DECKER, KUTV-2: Governor, you mentioned the criminal justice initiative and part of that is instead of putting people in prison, especially people with drug problems and the mentally ill, they'd be treated. But you’ve got to pay for treatment. Part of the plan of paying for treatment was to use federal money through Medicaid Expansion or however we might take it. Now we've said we aren't taking it. How are you going to pay for treatment now that you don't have a deal on taking federal money for treatment?

 

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I should have had you hired as a lobbyist up on the Hill to help us get through Healthy Utah, Rod. We'll have to pay it with our own state taxes.

It will be some additional cost 'cause we are sending a lot of money to Washington D.C., that we're leaving there now, at least temporarily until we, I think, strike some kind of a compromise and I'm optimistic about that. I'll just reiterate that. But we'll have to come up with the money out of our own state resources that we have here. And so if we're going to have those kind of treatment programs, you know, clearly we're going to have to pay for them.

 

ROD DECKER, KUTV-2: Okay, but you're going to be turning some of these guys

loose. Do you have the money to put them in treatment or are they just going to be wandering around causing more trouble?

 

GOVERNOR HERBERT: [chuckling] Well, we're not going to have them wandering around causing more trouble. We're going to have programs we'll put in place. Again, that's--it's an evolutionary process here. We're changing kind of the paradigm here that we've had in the past, and we will come up with the necessary money to fund these programs. And as--I'm very confident about that. We have, you know, $470 million in a rainy day fund so we've built up our reserve. So we have the ability to do it. I'm not worried about not having the funds necessary to do the right thing.

 

Reporter: What other bills, if any, are on your radar as possible vetoes?

 

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, there's about 520 of them that we've had passed here.

We take a look at all of them. We're just getting the bills now. We track them. We try to work very closely with the Legislature so that we don't have a bill that we find inappropriate. I think an ounce of prevention's worth a pound of cure any time. And so we've been very successful at kind of help—work with the Legislature and direct things so we don't have a lot of bills that need vetoing. But now we're in the process of really the final review. We are the last bastion to stop bad bills from happening. And you know, we take it very seriously.

 

We have--we'll have about 490 bills that will come to my desk here. And we go through every line item. We have a staff to go through them to make sure that there's not any unintended consequences. I don't know that there's a lot of bad bills but I will actually be given a list here in this next week, and I would guess out of the 490 bills that will come to my desk, there are probably 25 or 30 that we'll put in the

“pile” of possible veto or questionable concerns, do we want to support this and do some very close analysis. But at the end of the day, I expect there'll only be a handful of bills that would be vetoed.

 

WHITTNEY EVANS, KUER FM90: Have you thought any further, Governor, about the bill banning wood burning bans? Whether or not you will veto that?

 

GOVERNOR HERBERT: That's one that's, at least, I ask about, that I have some concerns about, you know. To just take out of the hands of our Air Quality Board which have a responsibility to help us develop, you know, rules that help our environment and air quality, seems to be a little bit of an overkill. And to say that they cannot, in fact, put in place parameters and rules and regulations about wood burn is probably a little short-sighted so I'm going to take a really hard look at that.

I'll just reiterate, you know, wood burning in our valley here is about 5% of the PM2.5. It's a big number that impacts our air quality. Even though it was only a handful of people that have wood burning stoves, we have many more that have EPA-approved wood burning stoves and fireplaces but they still put out a lot of pollution of 2.5 particulate. So you know, it's not a matter of, in my mind, of not having wood burn ban. It's a matter of having the right wood burn ban that makes some sense, that's enforceable, that I think the public can embrace. I know the Air Quality Board had seven public hearings and the public was very loud about not wanting to have wood burning bans. And so we need to take a hard look at that and I'm going to take a look at that piece of legislation, see if it's overreach by the Legislature in imposing restrictions unnecessarily on the Air Quality Board.

 

WHITTNEY EVANS, KUER FM90: So you're leaning toward a veto possibly?

 

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I'm going to take a look at it and I'm not leaning one way or the other. I'm very neutral on this. But I have a concern about them taking away the power of the Air Quality Board that they should have and as necessary to, in fact, put rules and regulation in place that will help us with air quality. You don't want to have the Legislature have to put those rules and regulation in place. That's a kind of a super-board. It would be a little less manageable. We typically give authorization to agencies to put rules and regulations in place with public hearing and comment, and by doing that, you have more nimble ability, you know, you have more flexibility and the public's involved in determining what those rules are going to be. In general, we get a pretty good outcome with that approach.

 

ROD DECKER, KUTV-2: You've expressed optimism that you can reach a deal with the Legislature, specifically with the House, over Healthy Utah. Do you--I take it that you talked before the end of the session. Do you have kind of a deal, just some problems, or are you just essentially starting from scratch?

 

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, we're not starting from scratch. I think we've identified those areas where there is concern. Particularly in the House, the areas of concern are sustainability, which really has to do with can we afford the program. We get a program and it's a matter of what does it cost us today and tomorrow and over the next decade. So do we have the ability to sustain a program? Rising health costs, being what they have been in the past, causes us pause. We've seen what's happened with just traditional Medicaid. The other thing is certainty, you know? Is there going to be--are we confident that the federal government will keep their part of the bargain? Will they keep their part of the split? We typically have a 70-30 split with Medicaid. Now we go to 90-10, it would be, under the Affordable Care Act Expansion opportunities and taking that money and redirecting it into the private sector. So predictability and sustainability are the two issues that need to be addressed. I think there are answers and ways we can solve that problem and give everybody comfort. But that's going to be what we'll do over the next 90 days.

 

ROD DECKER, KUTV-2: You already gave them two years and out and they said, "No." What else could you pull out?

 

GOVERNOR HERBERT: (laughter) Well, we've come pretty close here. Again, I think, as you've heard the Speaker of the House say, they've come a long ways from where they were going to do nothing and just leave things the way they were, to actually be willing to do something. And we're kind of arguing over what the something is now. And there are legitimate issues. I know that the Legislature does not want to have somebody on a program and then jerk the rug out from underneath them. I think that's a legitimate issue. I think there's a way for us to, in fact, deal with that. I think there's a way for we can cap expenses going on so we can make sure that we can afford it going forward. So again, those are some of the discussions we've had. We didn't--we weren't able to resolve them. We'll have continued discussion on with the Legislature, with the federal government. I'm optimistic we'll find resolution this summer.

 

ROD DECKER, KUTV-2: You have been optimistic and positive and talked and talked and talked and it sounds as if you still are. You sound as if you think you can get most of Healthy Utah in 90 days.

 

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I'm optimistic we'll find resolution to the issue. We may have to change the name to something else, you know, not Healthy Utah but--'cause it'll be maybe a combination of different ideas from the House and the Senate and from the Executive Branch and being able to come together and say--I have no pride of authorship on this, frankly. I just want to solve the problem. There are people out there that are hurting. There are taxpayers who are paying a lot of money. We ought to respect the taxpayer and get the best bang we can for the bucks they're spending. I'm confident--I'm the eternal optimist that we'll come together on this issue.

 

BEN WINSLOW FOX -13: On the issue of prison relocation, are you satisfied with what the Legislature has done on it so far?

 

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I am satisfied with what they've done because I threatened to veto what they were doing before, and so they've made a significant change. They were going to have just a seven-member commission, which would have all authority and all power to make the decision. I didn't think that was right. You can't cut out the Legislature and you can't cut out the Executive Branch.

 

So under the proposed legislation we have now that's--will be coming to my desk, it will require the seven-member commission to go out and identify a place, and go through their due diligence and process of finding what they would think would be a better place than the current Draper site, bring that to me. I then will call them into a special session and the Legislature will have an opportunity to vote that recommendation up or down. We'll have the opportunity to participate as the Executive Branch by putting it on a special session call, and having the ability to veto the bill or sign it into law. So again, all aspects of this legislative process, I think, will engage under this new legislation. And hopefully, we'll find a good site that will have minimal negative impact on any community that's so designated.

 

BEN WINSLOW FOX -13: Last month, you were saying, "Hey, it could possibly stay in Draper." Now, are you back on board with it moving?

 

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I've always said from the very beginning--don't read anything more into this than what I'm saying--if there's a better place than Draper then we ought to find it and put the prison there. If there's not a better place than Draper, then let's keep it in Draper. I mean, that's just kind of commonsense. We clearly are at a point where we need to rebuild the prison. And part of it's just the age of the facilities we have out there. It's also kind of a new recognition that programming is a big part of this. Safety issues for those who are--the guards out there and the prison staff. So new architecture, new programming, are part and parcel of what we're talking about. In fact, it should be the driving force of this issue.

 

So either we rebuild in Draper or we build someplace else. The benefit of someplace else is, and it's a secondary issue for me, is it opens up some real estate for future opportunities there in the two big counties, Salt Lake County and Utah County

are merging together. That becomes a very valuable piece of real estate for future development. I don't think we want to be quick about that, by the way. I think we ought to look for a long-term master plan of what could happen if, in fact, the prison gets moved.  But clearly, that's some economic opportunity there. And I think the process we have in place now is working well. We'll get a lot of public input and I think that we can find the right--make the right decision.

 

MICHAEL ORTON, UTAHPOLITICALCAPITOL.COM: Governor, regarding real estate and development in the state, Utah being one of the most arid in the Union, towards the end of the session, Representative Ipson was able to get through his bill, 281, which drastically changes the way that water infrastructure's going to be maintained and/or created. Some think that this was a way for Washington County to be able to build the Lake Powell Pipeline, et cetera. Tell us how your Executive Branch is going to be able to interact with the way those funds are created and moved and apportioned.

 

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, it--water is a complicated issue and certainly one that we all recognize, living in the second-most arid state here in the continental 48, that we really need to address. Water is the only limiting factor to the growth we have in our state, and we are about the third fastest growing state in America. So it's a big issue. It's not on everybody's radar screen but it's certainly on mine. That's why I created the Your Utah, Your Future initiative to say what are we going to do? How are we going to handle the growth that's taking place in Utah? And water's got to be the top of the list.

 

That being the case, you know, how do we fund water projects? We don't have as much federal money opportunities, you know, for reclamation and reservoir

and those kinds of things we've had in the past. The CUP is really the last of  those projects and so we're going to have to find better ways to conserve what we have as well as develop what we need. The Lake Powell Pipeline to access our water that's been given to us out of the 1922 Colorado River Compact, is something that really we need to be acutely aware of, and how do you transport that water from one point to another point and the Lake Powell Pipeline is one that's been proposed. How we fund that, I've always said the state may have a role to play in helping with bonding, the ability for us to borrow money to build the projects but the cost of that should be borne by the users of the water. Should not be a statewide issue. If we're talking about the Lake Powell Pipeline that should be paid for, the bond, the money borrowed to build the project, should be paid by those who benefit from the project.

 

We have the Bear River Basin which is another area where we probably have ability to develop more water. And again, I would say the same thing there. I think there's opportunities for us to develop more water resources that will be necessary in the future for—to accommodate the growth. But that benefit from that development should be paid by those who do get the benefit of the development. But it's going to be two things. We're going to have to conserve. This summer's going to be a tough one. We're at about 60%, 65% of capacity, our reservoirs. We don't have as much snowpack. I hope we have a wetter spring, I hope we have a wet summer like we had last year so we don't have the drawdown necessary. But I can see the potential of rationing, alternate days that we water our lawns, you know, and it's going to be a challenging summer unless we get some water.

 

WHITTNEY EVANS, KUER FM90: What do you think about the $5 million fund that was created this session for the Lake Powell Pipeline and the Bear River Dam? What are your thoughts on that? Is it enough to advance water resources?

 

GOVERNOR HERBERT: It's not nearly enough to take care of the projects themselves but, again, part of the planning process costs money so we can actually do a good analysis of can we afford it, what's the cost of benefit, which is analysis should always be done on any project. But you've going to start with some kind of an ability to scope out the project and decide whether it's feasible or not. So I think it gives us a step in the right direction. And like I say, water's going to become an increasingly big issue for this state just because of our growth that's taking place. We have internal growth. We have a high birth rate. But we also have great quality of life and economic opportunity, which is going to attract people from all over the country, literally around the world, to come and set up operations in Utah. So water is going to be a number one issue for us over the next generation.

 

WHITTNEY EVANS, KUER FM90: Back to Medicaid Expansion, do you feel like the Federal Government will go for a cap on state spending or limits on enrollment?

 

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I'm hopeful. They have caps on other programs and so I think there's the ability to convince them to have a little more hard cap.

We also have got--already have got the agreement to what we call grandfather people. So as people would get on a program with Healthy Utah, for example, or a reasonable facsimile to it, you could, in fact, have people get on a program and then are grandfathered, they're never off the program.

 

The average length of time, by the way, for people to be on a Medicaid program is about six months. And we're in a state where there's economic opportunity. We've added to our program a work effort so when you enroll in Healthy Utah, you automatically enroll into a work program designed to help you get a better job or get a job if you're able-bodied and get off government assistance. So as people would get on the program, they would stay on it 'til, through attrition, they're off and, if we felt like it wasn't sustainable, you could fall back to what we would determine as a more sustainable program, which is like the proposal that's come out of the House.

 

So a combination of those some way could work. That in itself kind of caps the

ongoing expense. That being said, I'm prepared to work with the Department of Health, Secretary Burwell, and say we need to have a little more definitive way to cap our expenses so we don't have runaway costs. By the way, most of that has associated with rising costs of healthcare. Our Medicaid has gone from 9% or 10% of our budget to 20% of our budget today and it's continuing to grow, with just traditional Medicaid. That's not because of the Medicaid program itself necessarily.

It's because of the rising costs of healthcare.

 

My disappointment of Washington, D.C., with the Affordable Care Act is it was just simply a "how are we going to pay the bill" program as opposed to what can we do to reduce the cost of healthcare, you know? Our costs are going up. You hear people that have got all kinds of stories of operations and it costs $30,000 or $40,000 or $50,000 for, you know, a 2-day stay in the hospital. Costs are really what's the concern for me, which is not being addressed by any program out of Washington, D.C.

 

BEN WINSLOW FOX -13: Governor, are you planning on signing the bills dealing with transportation tax increase as well as the property tax increase? And why, you know, considering most people don't like property tax and transportation tax or tax hikes of any kind?

 

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Yeah, most people don't want to have their taxes go up. I get it. I understand that. I'm grateful we live in a state where our tax liability in Utah, all things considered, is about the tenth lowest in America. It's one of our reasons why we're a business-friendly environment. We don't have undue high tax rates. But you have to pay for the government services that we, the people, want to have. Education is a big deal. And so the property tax opportunity here, to equalize, which is really the motivator here, is to make sure that people have the ability to have a good education no matter where you're sited in this state, whether you're in the urban area or rural areas, you need to have the ability to, in fact, have equalization.

 

Last point on that is that, again, we talk about surplus money, $730 plus million, but the real number is $390 million of ongoing revenue that you have to pay. You have to use that money for ongoing--the others are kind of one-time money. So it's not quite the money that you hear about. I think our approach here with property tax and fuel tax increases are very appropriate for today.

 

ERIC NIELSEN, KUED: Governor, thank you very much for joining us. We've reached the end of our time. We appreciate you being here today.

 

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Thank you.

 

Announcer: This has been "The Governor's Monthly News Conference." An archive of transcripts, video, and audio is available online. Please visit kued.org. Thanks for joining us.

 

 

 

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