March 30, 2014

"I think we all share probably the concern of too much federal over-reach into our own school system and we would reject that." -Governor Herbert

KUED presents The Governor's Monthly News Conference, an exchange between Utah reporters and Governor Gary Herbert. This program was recorded earlier.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Good morning.

KEN VERDOIA, KUED: Good morning, Governor. Thanks for joining us on this Thursday morning and I understand you'd like to open with a statement.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, let me just say it's good to see you all again, as always. We just completed our 45-day legislative session and I think everything went actually quite well. We were able to prioritize, I think, correctly with the budget, which is the number one function of the Legislature when they get together, that 45-day session. We put a lot of money into education, which I think was important, helping us with our goal towards focusing on growing the economy and having economic expansion. So I think by and large and in spite of the ups and downs that always happen with a legislative session, we ended at the right place and I think we had a great successful session that the people of Utah should be proud and pleased to see the outcome. So again, I'm happy to answer any questions you might have.

KEN VERDOIA, KUED: Governor, there are those that looked at this session as particularly geared towards challenge to your leadership and your vision, overtly from the first day. And there are those same observers that say with the conclusion of the session, it was perhaps even a vindication, if not an endorsement of your leadership, and those challenges fell by the wayside. Do you have that sense of vindication?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: No. I know there's always a little bit of tension. Sometimes it's been referred to as healthy tension between the legislative branch of government and the executive branch. That's probably understandable. We have different perspectives, different roles to play, and we try to play those roles appropriately in representing the people, our constituency.

So although there's maybe some talk about tug-of-wars and challenges out there, my focus really was on making sure we got the people's work done. We prioritized our budget correctly and, as I've mentioned, I think we have a reasonable and rational and responsible budget, which has emphasized those things which the public wants to have emphasized when it comes to education, infrastructure needs, health and human services, the ability for us to continue to grow the economy and so vindication is not a part of it. I think success is a part of it in behalf of the people of Utah. The big winners coming out of this legislative session are the taxpayers of Utah. They were the ones that won in this session.

DAN BAMMES, KUER: One of the biggest items that didn't get done, though, was Medicaid. You have a proposal that you made that didn't really make it through in any kind of a bill. You're asking for flexibility to negotiate waivers with the federal government. Where does that process stand now and when do you think you'll be in a position to have the Legislature act on it?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, what you mean, I think, is--Dan, is Medicaid Expansion. We have Medicaid and we've had Medicaid since, like, 1969. And the question was whether we're going expand that and help a larger group of people. Part of the Affordable Care Act, as you know, require us, as a mandate, to buy a product. That was challenged in court and a violation of the Commerce Clause. And that challenge was upheld and it was, in fact, a violation of the Commerce Clause and you can't mandate people to buy this product.

But what they did say was for the Medicaid Expansion that they can tax us. It wasn't a penalty. The Obama administration says it's a tax and the Supreme Court said, "You can tax." So we're being taxed for this Medicaid Expansion. The question's what--how do we utilize the money. They want to give us back $258 million for what they call Medicaid Expansion. We've just made the proposal there's probably a better, more efficient way to use the money in order to help those people, that group of people that make up to 133% of poverty, which is about $15,500 a year. Most everybody would acknowledge they probably have need for healthcare, access to better insurance.

And so our proposal simply was we can spend the money better under a state program, which we call "Healthy Utah," as opposed to the Medicaid Expansion program, get better outcomes, better service, and deal in solving the issues of the people--and really it's about people at the end of the day--better.

Where we are with the Obama administration, I've sent my delegation back. It was not the first step but certainly the continuation of our first steps we've made and I feel very optimistic how we've been received. There's clearly a growing understanding in the Obama administration for the need for states to have more flexibility, to be able to address their own unique demographics, their own unique political situations, as opposed to a one-size-fits-all approach. And I feel very optimistic that over the next few weeks and months we're going to be able to bring reconciliation to this issue and bring a proposal to the Legislature that they will find acceptable.

RICHARD PIATT, KSL-5: You had a team in Washington recently who is specifically addressing this and asking for the waivers to move your program forward. What's the--can you give us a progress report perhaps on what they found?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: They were received well. The comments made to us were basically this. One, we understand that other states want to have more flexibility. We're prepared to grant you as much flexibility as we've already given to other states and you can look at in Arkansas, a Democrat governor there that has putting their monies for Medicaid Expansion mostly into insurance programs in the private sector. You can look at what they're doing in Indiana, under Governor Mike Pence there, Republican governor, where they have a Healthy Indiana plan, which is where the money's being funneled into their program. Others, they're trying to, in fact, emulate what we're doing here in Utah.

So there's a growing understanding and awareness of the need. And a willingness to give us at least the flexibility they've given to other states and more. And they've also said to us, "We're prepared to sit down with you and work with you towards finding success that will be acceptable to the people of Utah," and, again, that's why I'm cautiously optimistic that we're on the right path and we're gonna find success in this quest of a kind of a block grant, maximum flexibility, as an option to Medicaid Expansion.

GLEN MILLS, ABC-4: Will they accept your plan the way it is or is there going to be some give and take with the federal government?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, negotiations always lead to some probably modification, but the concept of a block grant, it's our money, give it back to us, let us address the issue in our own unique Utah way. We've talked in terms of a work requirement, similar to what we already have with our "Aid to Needy Family" program, TANF. There's a work requirement, you have to go out there and be looking for work and obtain a job. Co-pays, premium that you have to pay on a sliding scale so that you have some skin in the game as a recipient. Those are probably areas of negotiation, what they will be, the amounts probably is yet to be determined.

But the concept of maximum flexibility given to the states to develop their own programs, an alternative to Medicaid Expansion, is one that seems to be acknowledged and understood in Washington now that has not been in the past. So I think our timing is good on this and, again, I'm optimistic that we'll be able to over the next few weeks and 2 or 3 months, come up with a resolution of this issue and get a program that will be acceptable to the Obama administration and to our State Legislature.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: You're still planning to go back in April to talk to the administration directly about this? And at that point do you think you'll have a plan in place?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I am planning on going back in a couple or three weeks to Washington to talk directly to the Department of Health and others about this issue. I'm already talking to other governors about having us join together. Most governors, Republican as well as Democrat, understand the importance of flexibility to address their own unique needs.

So this is a concept that is being accepted not only by the states and proposed by the states but being accepted by the Obama administration. I don't know that we'll have everything worked out by the time I go back there but it's a continuous work in progress and an evolution, and I'm expecting kind of as a self-imposed goal to see if we can't have this resolved by this summer.

RICHARD PIATT, KSL-5: As a policy-maker, I think a lot of people understand your due diligence here because this program's going to last for quite a while. You want to make sure you're doing it right. But what do you say to the people who are waiting for health coverage who basically are saying to the state, "I just want health insurance already. I just want to be covered, and I can't wait much longer for whatever reason"? There's a lot of people out there who have a lot of heartbreaking stories, as you know.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: We're sensitive to those people out there that need assistance. Nobody's being cut out that didn't have assistance before, by the way; we're not going backwards. We're trying to go forwards here and that's something that ought to be recognized as we work together. This does have long-term ramifications and so we want to do it right, rather than do it quick. I think the fact that we've been a little bit slower to get this put together has helped us, in fact. There's half of the states have not accepted Medicaid Expansion, they're looking for alternatives. We think how we're leading out is going to be a model for many states to follow.

We have what we call the doughnut hole, those below 100% of poverty, which are the ones that are most acutely affected, meaning that people that make more than 100% of poverty are getting benefits now under the current Affordable Care Act and are making more money and getting benefits that people making less money are not being able to obtain. That seems to be somehow unfair, certainly not a good policy, which we're trying to, in fact, correct, which is the flaw that we find in the Affordable Care Act along with the Supreme Court decision. So we're being proactive in trying to address this as quickly as we can.

The pilot program idea is, I think, a good one. We can be--have an ability to analyze it, to evaluate, see how it impacts the people we're trying to help, as well as the federal government in its commitment and ability to honor their commitments over a long period of time. And also how it will impact our own state budget. So, again, this has long-term ramifications to the Utah taxpayer. We want to make sure we do it right and I think we're taking very prudent, measured steps to get it right the first time.

MAX ROTH, FOX-13: Governor, I wonder if you could address the idea of false hope on both sides of this issue. On the one side, the house members who did not want to pass your plan were saying that this program, they don't think is going to exist in 3 years and so essentially it's a false hope. You're going to give people insurance and then you're going to take it away. And then, on the other side, is it a false hope to think that you go back, negotiate a plan, and you still have the same house by and large. Is there any reason to think that they'll let you go through with it?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, if I can keep your question straight here. One, I don't think we don't help people today because somehow, some reason, we speculate sometime in the future, we may not get the assistance of the federal government. I think that's just nonsensical. If we can help them now, let's help them. If we have to change and modify because of the lack of commitment on the federal government in the future, so be it. That's what we get together in legislative sessions for, is to make tough decisions.

I would, though, say, one, this is unique in that we're being taxed specifically. Money is being taken away from us specifically for Medicaid Expansion. Our local medical device companies, the tanning beds, all of us, the paying taxes on the Affordable Care Act, we send about $680 million back to Washington on Medicaid and healthcare. And so for us to take the money back and spend it what I think's a more appropriate way, I think, is a commonsense approach that we ought to--I think commonsense will prevail on this thing.

Secondly, we have got significant support in the senate and I would submit to you we've got significant support in the house. The fact that the bill was not allowed to come up for a vote is a different issue and, again, let me go back. Let's see if we can bring the proposals back and then I'm sure that the Legislature, the senate and the house, will have an opportunity to weigh in and vote their conscience and decide whether, in fact, this is a commonsense solution to the issue before us.

And I think they will. They're going say, "Hey, it's our money and we have a better way to do it than Medicaid Expansion. Why not help these people?" At the end of the day, it really is about helping people as best we can and respecting the taxpayers' dollars to get the best bang for the buck we can, out of money that we're sending back to Washington, D.C., specifically for this issue.

GLEN MILLS, ABC-4: So do you feel like it's more of the leadership in the house then that's holding this back and you feel like you do have more support in the house?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: The fact it was not allowed to come up for vote, you know, is an indication that the house voice has not been heard. So for whatever purpose or whatever reason behind that, you know, you'll have to ask the house leadership about that. I just believe that once we go back and come with a proposal, there'll be an opportunity for everybody to weigh in on it and decide whether this is the right policy for the people of Utah and for our taxpayers.

And while there might be individuals that will vote against it, I personally believe that the vast majority of the senate and the house will say, "This is a commonsense solution to the issue we have of trying to help people up to 133% of poverty that need access to healthcare, particularly the doughnut hole people, which is about 55,000 to 60,000 people that live below poverty."

RICHARD PIATT, KSL-5: With the wider range of the Affordable Care Act, the deadline is next Monday for people to sign up through the exchanges, of course. It's been extended for those who have started the process, again. I'm wondering though if, at this point, you're recognizing that there are people who are finding health coverage, they're getting subsidies and assistance to pay for them and they're finding it to be a good thing so, at this point, would you encourage people to get on healthcare.gov and find healthcare coverage in spite of your philosophical differences about the Affordable Care Act?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Absolutely. Again, we believe in the rule of law in Utah and whether you like the law or don't like the law and I think it was flawed in many ways in its inception, without getting input from states and governors, I think, was a major faux pas on behalf of the administration. But it is the law of the land now whether you like it or not. Until it's changed, we need to abide by the law.

There are opportunities out there for people to get healthcare in the private sector and also with the Affordable Care Act and so, take advantage of those opportunities that the people feel are appropriate. In that vein, I think that's prudence. We, as governors, and we're going to continue to work with the Obama administration to see if we can't find ways to improve it.

Even President Obama's told me on more than one occasion, there are problems with the Affordable Care Act that need to be improved and fixed. So you've got kind of the Democrat approach of "Let's improve and fix what we already have on the books." You have Republicans saying, "We ought to repeal and replace it with something better." Those are not that far apart. Fix and improve what already is on the books, repeal and replace with something better on the books, is not, you know, they're at least cousins. And we're not as far apart as some people would think.

DAN BAMMES, KUER: In your State of the State address you talked about a couple of strategies for improving the air quality here on the Wasatch Front. One of them was providing greater access to Tier 3 gasoline, cleaner burning gasoline. Where does that process stand now and are we making progress on that?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: We are. It's not going be easy under the Clean Air Act but we've met--I personally have met with Gina McCarthy, the director of the EPA, and talked about what we're trying to do here in Utah, uniquely so. I've talked in terms of what I consider a little bit of a challenge in the law, as the refiners are able to use averaging across the country when they go to these Tier 3 gasolines and pointed out that the seven counties listed that have the most benefit of Tier 3 gasoline are all found in Utah. And so we need to make sure that that actually happens, that the counties of Utah are benefited from Tier 3 gasoline.

We're working with the refineries to make sure that they understand the economic benefit and also the moral obligation they have to help us here in Utah with cleaning up our air and bringing Tier 3 gasoline to Utah. We're received well in that regard. I think everybody's onboard in trying to do that.

Likewise, we're working with the automobile dealers and their association in trying to bring in Tier 3 automobiles. Again, sooner rather than later, kind of meeting California standards. And there is a significant willingness on the automobile dealers to, in fact, put that as part of their inventory. So I think we're making headway and we'll continue to be very proactive in pushing the envelope when it comes to air quality issues and particularly Tier 3 gasoline in automobiles.

ROBERT GEHRKE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: Governor, the State Board of Education's asked you to veto, I believe, SB257, which creates this curriculum review committee. Have you looked at that bill? Do you have an opinion right now on which way you're leaning on that?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I've looked at that bill and I'm looking at all the other bills too. As you know, we've had about 485, 486 bills passed. We've always tracked those. We've prided ourselves in working very closely with the Legislature and their sponsors to make sure that we have bills that are shaped correctly so we don't have to veto them later. We've received most all the bills now as of last Friday. It takes some time to get through the process and get over to our office. We're now going through them with a fine-tooth comb to see if there's any unintended consequences of the issues that we have not, you know, observed, that we're now observing.

We have concern that there is a rush for bills, the last few days of the session, like 150-some-odd bills, I think, passed the last day. I'm concerned about lack of public input, lack of debate and discussion. So we're trying to go through these bills and make sure there's not any unintended consequence, there's not some fiscal irresponsibility.

Some of the fiscal notes have been ignored that have been attached to the bills. Some of them have been put in a delay circumstance where we don't attach the fiscal note, we delay the implementation a year or 6 months so it doesn't impact the current budget. I'm a little concerned about the ramifications of that. So like all bills, and 257 is no exception, we're listening to people's comments, input, we're going to meet with the sponsors of the bill, see what their intentions were. Does the bill meet those intentions? And are those intentions appropriate? And then we'll make a decision on, as all bill has the opportunity for me to decide to sign it, to veto it, or to let it go into law without my signature.

BOB BERNICK, UTAHPOLICY.COM: Governor, let me ask you a political question, if I can. SB54 was passed and that's a compromise between "Count My Vote" and the dual-track system to nominate candidates. You're going to be, maybe, running for election in 2016. You told me in a meeting that we had that you were going to move up your decision-making process into the summer time. If you run for election again, are you going to take the caucus convention route or are you going to take the--gather some signatures, 28,000 in a statewide race and go that route?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, if I decide to run for election again, and let me couch it that way, and I'm clearly leaning towards doing that, but that's a decision for another day and an announcement for a later time. But if I was going to do it, I think you would do both. I think you start with the people at large and get the petition signed and make sure you've got grassroots support. In my case, a statewide race is 28,000 signatures. That gives you a good leg-up with the constituency out there that they desire to have you, in fact, elected. But I would also go to the caucus and the convention and state my case there with the delegates.

I think that's a two-pronged attack that would be very successful if, in fact, a candidate, myself included, were successful in getting the support of the convention and getting the petition signed. So I think most candidates would do both, frankly. I've heard the debate. I sat for over five hours at the Republican State Central Committee meeting and heard Senator Bramble and representative Dan McKay talk about the reasons for the senate bill 54 and the compromise. Their arguments were persuasive. I felt a lot better about it after hearing that discussion, that debate.

So I think we've got a system in place now that allows for a hybrid approach to getting on the ballot. That approach has been done in about six or seven other states. I think it will, in fact, pass constitutional muster. I expect there could be some litigation in our future and we'll see, but I feel comfortable that we've done the right thing in behalf of the people of Utah with the senate bill 54.

MAX ROTH, FOX-13: Governor, I want to get back to this education question. And there are a lot of folks who are up in arms thinking that our schools are a battleground. And they say that Common Core is trying to bring in influence from the outside into Utah schools and taking too much control away from local school boards and from parents. Do you believe that? And what do you think of that over-arching philosophy? Is that where schools are right now?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I think there's a lot of misinformation out there regarding the Common Core, probably on all sides of the issue. I think we all share probably the concern of too much federal over-reach into our own school system and we would reject that. I think we all believe, in Utah at least, that Utah ought to be in control of its curriculum, its testing, the textbooks we buy, the methodology we have in our learning process. And that really is controlled by our local school boards, by the way, elected by the people. So the concern about this federal over-reach, you know, I share that.

That's why a year ago, we had Senator Margaret Dayton introduce legislation, was passed and as part of our statute now that says, in fact, if there's this over-reach by the federal government dictating to us inappropriately of what we should be doing with our own Utah education, we reject that. In fact, we would, in fact, eliminate that as being a requirement, which means in essence for those who are concerned, you'd get out of Common Core.

We have really what's called Utah Core. We have shared standards. Let's not be confused with standards, of what we'd like to see as our bar, where it's raised, and what the excellence is, as opposed to curriculum. We have common standards as far as language-arts, reading, and math, as far as the bar should be at this level, similar to other states. But how we get there, the curriculum, is controlled by Utah. Make no mistake about it. It is now and will always be controlled by Utah.

That's part of our law so the local school boards and the people elected by the people will listen to the people, they'll make sure that we have a methodology to reach these standards in a Utah way, that our textbooks are purchased as we believe they should be by Utah people. And the testing is controlled by Utah people, representing the values and principles of the people of Utah. So, again, I think we need to have more discussion about this to eliminate some of the misunderstandings surrounding what's commonly referred to as the Common Core in conjunction with what we have, with what we call the Utah Core.

ROBERT GEHRKE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: So when Governor Pence yesterday said, "They're not going to be part of Common Core anymore," you don't think that we're to the point now where we need to consider that? 'Cause it sounds--you do have the authority to do that under the bill of--

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, our State School Board really is the one that's had the public hearings and have implemented this program. Again, adopting the standards. I mean, a lot of people we talk to haven't even read the Standard. Read the standards, see if you don't like the standards. How we get to that standard, our curriculum and our textbooks and our testing is our decision.

I've talked to Governor Pence about what they're doing there. In essence, they're saying they're creating what's called the "Indiana Core." It's not the Common Core, it's the Indiana Core, but their standards are almost mirroring exactly what is commonly referred to as the Common Core Standards. So they're just doing it a different way, which is what we've already been doing in Utah.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Governor, we are just about out of time and I must present this issue. A senior member of your administration who wishes to remain anonymous says there's a document circulating in your office, which clearly showcases weaknesses in your philosophical approach. This document, of course, is your brackets for the NCAA playoff, basketball. Would you care to respond on this document and who do you have going all the way? GOVERNOR HERBERT: [laughing] Well, I had Florida, Arizona, Michigan State, and Duke. And Duke's let me down. I would note that part of my philosophy is that all of these states where these colleges or universities reside are run by Republican governors. And that may be part of my fatal flaw here but anyway I'm trying to come up with a good result here and we'll see what happens. I think Florida's going to win- -

REPORTER[off camera]: Go Michigan State, governor.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: - -and Arizona in the West.

KEN VERDOIA, KUED-7: And on that good-natured note, we will conclude this edition of the "The Governor's Monthly News Conference." Thank you for joining us.

This has been "The Governor's Monthly News Conference." An archive of transcripts, video, and audio is available online. Please visit kued.org. Thanks for joining us.

Return to home page