August 23, 2007

“…with the whole equalization in the school district split, these are big issues that are going to be part of our existence for the next several years, and they need to be done right.” –Gov Huntsman

KEN VERDOIA, KUED: Governor, thanks for joining us today. Every day for more than the past two weeks our headlines have been dominated by the unfortunate string of bad news from the Crandall canyon mine. As we meet on this Thursday morning, more decisions are being made, but I'd like you to pause this point and think, have there been lessons learned by you as governor about an incident like this that you will carry forward?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: Yes. Let me tell you right at the outset, however, that we've got a pretty remarkable state. We have a very resilient community in Huntington, in Carbon and Emery Counties, people pulling together like I've never seen people pull together before in the face of tragedy and uncertainty.

It's been a real lift for me, and I think a whole lot of other people who have watched this play out the last two weeks. And that's on top of the fires that we saw, during which five people lost their lives. It's been a tough summer, there's no doubt about that, August is supposed to be the lull in the year, and it's been anything but.

As it relates to lessons learned, and that's a very good question, there will be plenty of lessons that we're going to learn from this.

I can't articulate all of them for you right now, because I fully expect an independent investigation to take place that I'll be talking more about very soon, and that will be focused on recommendations for the state going forward in terms of safety reviews, rescue assistance, things that we ought to be considering that we haven't done in 30 years.

I think the bigger picture, if I had to mention it, would be that fundamentally I think the system is broken, and that's going to be up to congress to figure out how to fix it, and the Department of Labor, and MSHA.

When you have, for example, an airplane tragedy, you don't have the CEO of the airline who is a primary spokesperson for the investigation and the rescue. You have the NTSB.

I think that there needs to be more sharpening of a response to this kind of tragedy. I'm not at all convinced that we have the right technologies to draw from for a deep-mine incident like the one we've seen.

So I don't know what's going to happen, all I can say is congress needs to take a good look at this to ensure that it never happens again. And it's sadly through these kinds of things that we learn hard and painful lessons.

I know that because I've been in conversation with Joe Machen, my good friend from West Virginia, about what he learned after SAGO.

CHRIS VANOCUR, ABC 4: Governor, to pick up on a point I think I just heard you say, recently the mine owner, Bob Murray, made comments perhaps critical about you, maybe even suggesting you were playing politics with the mine situation. How would you respond to those comments? And I've got a follow-up.

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: I think anyone who's been involved from the very beginning, as I have, knows that no one is playing politics with this situation. People are just trying to help with the families, with their family members, support the rescue effort to the best of our ability. That's all people are trying to do.

I do think the way that the families have been treated is unconscionable, and I think they deserve better. And I think there ought to be a minimum threshold for respect for human dignity when people are going through this kind of crisis.

And the state has done and will continue to do everything that it can, but we're going to learn some lessons as we go forward, and make sure that this kind of thing doesn't happen again.

CHRIS VANOCUR, ABC 4: Governor Huntsman, my follow-up is, given what you've said, does Mr. Murray enjoy your full confidence?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: Mr. Murray has a job to do, and that's fine. I'm not sure that anyone cares what he has to say right now.

We have a job to do, as a state, and I'm going to do it with people who can render some very, I think, important and difficult judgments and recommendations that we need going forward.

I don't think it helps to look to personalities who have been part of this the last couple of weeks, other than to say these families deserve the very best, and if it means that resources have to be expended on the part of the company, if it means that new technologies and methodologies need to be considered to safely bring closure to these families, then that ought to be done.

I've already spoken out about safety, and safety needs to be first and foremost in everything that is done, and obviously nobody can enter from the underground portion of the mine.

But I'm not convinced, as just one observer, that every technology has been deployed, and every methodology considered for recovering these bodies in a safe way, and bringing closure to these families.

And I say that, while the last couple of weeks watching, you know, the space shuttle flight, and looking at the high-tech advances that have occurred in space, where you've got people repairing tiles of the space shuttle while in flight.

You know, and there's the inconsistency, or the incongruity with people who are then trapped here on earth, you know, 1500 feet down, I just- - there's got to be a better way to handle these kinds of situations.

RICHARD PIATT, KSL 5: Governor, you mentioned another thing earlier, about federal government action. I'm wondering if you feel at this point if perhaps there's too cozy a relationship between mine regulators and mine owners.

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: I don't know the answer to that, Richard, but I fully expect that in the investigations and the congressional hearings that will ensue, I think fairly soon, I suspect in September, that we're going to learn a lot more about that.

We'll see congressional investigations, we're going to see an MSHA investigation. I think there will be an independent investigation beyond that to look at what MSHA did in the light of their own tragedy, and I've got to say that Richard Stickler, given my interaction with him, is about as professional a person as I've interacted with recently. He did everything he could in a most professional and upstanding way.

ROD DECKER, KUTV 2: You say the system is broken, and you say that the families were not treated with dignity. Is the thing, the specific thing you're concerned about that the bodies were not recovered? And you believe they ought to have been recovered? Or were there things in addition to that that you believe show the system was broken? Were there other things that you saw that could have been done, or ought not- - that could have been done and weren't or ought not to have been done and were?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: Well, I think from the very beginning, from the way the whole process starts, and who drives the process, and who speaks on behalf of the process, and the kinds of then technologies that are brought to bear in ensuring a deep mine rescue, I think all of that needs to be looked at, and reviewed, and made better. I'm not happy or satisfied with the way it played out. I just don't think it is as tight as it needs to be. The human dignity and respect thing, it just ought to be a natural follow-on for anybody in a tragedy like this. You have to separate the two of them.

ROD DECKER, KUTV 2: Other than the bodies not being recovered, were there violations of human dignity?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: Well, I think the way that people interact with families that are going through a very traumatic time in their lives, I think there ought to be some modicum of respect for the human dignity in those cases, and for what they're experiencing.

ROD DECKER, KUTV 2: Governor, we didn’t see that, I take it you did, and you were dissatisfied?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: Yes.

ROD DECKER, KUTV 2: We didn't see that interaction.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET MORNING NEWS: And who, governor, specifically, are you dissatisfied with? Is it the mine owner? Is it federal officials? Who is responsible for this behavior that you've just labeled unconscionable?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: Well, the federal folks did everything they could, let me just put it that way.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET MORNING NEWS: And the mine owner?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: I'm not going to get into the mine owner, other than to say that I thought that the way the families were treated was unconscionable. And they deserve better.

GLEN WARCHOL, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: Governor, many of the things you said, you weren't specific about who could do it. And one of the things I wonder about is what can you, and the state, do about correcting some of the things, the state abdicated its role in safety and regulation of coal mining, as many states did, a long time ago. Are you talking about getting involved in that? If you did, where would you find the resources in Utah of expertise and technology to get involved in this again?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: Well, if we decide that we ought to be playing a role as a state, and I fully expect that that will be up for discussion, as it should, by the way, as part of Ken's initial question about lessons learned, from an independent investigation that we're going to launch, they don't need to get into why the mine collapsed. They don't need to get into whose fault it was. That will be done by two or three other investigations.

What I would expect from this investigation, done by our people here in the state, is to figure out what we can do to be better, smarter, and safer as we go forward. And specifically I would point out what we ought to be doing in terms of safety reviews. Right now we basically abdicate all of that to MSHA, and we have since 1977.

But I do think that there's a role for the state in assessing in our own way, based upon our own standards, how safety ought to take place. And the reason I say that is because I don't know that there are a whole lot of other states that have the deep mining process that we- -We're very unique in that regard.

So since we are unique in that form of mining, I think that we probably need our own unique approach to safety. And I'm not convinced that that is done yet

GLEN WARCHOL, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: That sounds like that would be an extremely expensive proposition for the state to set up a group of experts to be able to do that. That would be a new department in the state's department of resources.

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: We have the division of gas, oil, and mining. And we'll have to see what- - Listen, I'm going to get the investigation take its course, with a strong recommendation on my part to look at what we do about safety inspections, what we do about rescue assistance, for example. These are things that we need to be air tight on.

And if it means that we need more FTE in the office of oil, gas, and mining, to work with MSHA in verifying some of their own conclusions, then from my standpoint that would be an acceptable outcome. But I want to hear it from people who are going to be, over the next few months, a lot closer to that than I am right now.

I'm still running on emotion right now, so I don't think it's ever a good time to be making long-term public policy decisions when you're emotionally tied to something

ROD DECKER, KUTV 2: Two suggestions were made of thing that is could have been done that weren't in recovery. One was a 36-inch hole, a big hole, and the other was they could have gone in underground, put up reinforced concrete as they went, the way, say, you dig a freeway tunnel, though that would have been expensive. Do you believe either of those things ought to have been done or ought still to be done, or do you have any other idea of something that was not done that could have been done? Anything that could have been done to enhance the recovery or rescue effort?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: You don't know what you don't know. And there may be something out there that people just haven't considered, and that's why. I just don't believe at this juncture that every time of technology and methodology have been exhausted.

But let me just say about the tunneling. MSHA was pretty clear about the fact that they did use best practices and best technology available in the tunneling aspect. And they brought in some of the best brains in mining sciences from Penn State, Colorado school of mining, and other places, to basically confirm that, verify it. And indeed, they did.

The 30-inch diameter hole, you've got to know where you're going with that hole. Moreover, you've got 1500 feet down, and when you're on a self-contained breathing apparatus, as a rescuer, you've got an hour travel downward, travel time, that's half your oxygen. And so when you look at it pragmatically, and that's why I say the technologies that are now being used are inadequate for the job at hand.

ROD DECKER, KUTV 2: So you're talking about the new technology, not about full use of existing technology

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: I'm talking about new technology, something out there that somebody isn't considering at this point. I'm just not convinced that everything has been exhausted.

GLEN WARCHOL, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: Governor, you might get into an economic question that would make it economically unfeasible to extract coal if you met these technological safety measures and rescue measures. These, as you mentioned before, we have put people in space, and managed to handle that at enormous expenses. But Frankly, a lot of the ideas that people have come up with, the mines don't adopt, just because they're too expensive.

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: Anyone who's putting economics before human life, I don't think, is exhibiting enough in the way of basic humanity.

REPORTER: Governor- -

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: There's always a balance in all things, and it's an iterative approach to making this kind of dangerous work better and safer, that can be done. They're doing it in West Virginia in the aftermath of SAGO. We're going to have to do it here, and I assume there will be some costs associated with that.

We'll have to wait until all is said and done, but if it means that our miners and their families and the communities in which they reside can bank on a more certain future then I think that's an outcome we all can live with

KEN VERDOIA, KUED: Governor, you've talked about the families deserving closure, that we owe them closure. But is there a point where the cost, either in endangerment of existing human life, or true financial cost in recovery becomes prohibitive, and we must walk away? The mine owner this morning, as we meet on Thursday, is talking about taking steps to walk away. It's the difficult question.

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: It is, and I think we need the best minds in the world to basically assess the situation in terms of technology and methodologies before anybody comes to that conclusion.

And when all possibilities, all options, technologies, and methodologies have been exhausted, then I think you're probably left with what is a very painful and difficult situation for families, who never should have their loved ones entombed in a situation like this.

There should be some form of closure and closure with dignity. And whatever that is based upon the prevailing circumstances, I think everyone will live with, so long as they know that everything humanly possible has been done. Humanly possible. You can't control acts of nature in a mountain. But everything humanly possible.

DAN BAMMES, KUER 90.1: Governor, we had a special session of the legislature yesterday

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: I must have missed out on that.

DAN BAMMES, KUER 90.1: Well there wasn't a lot that got done. There was a lot that was put off to the general session, the two bills they passed dealt with the school district split issue. The central debate in that area is whether everyone residing in the school district ought to vote on whether it should be split, or only those who would form the new district. First of all, are you going to sign the two bills on that issue that were passed yesterday, and second, what's your view of the subject of allowing everyone involved to vote?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: I think all people ought to be given a chance to vote. I think the 80-20 rule that was discussed yesterday is a good one, and I will seriously consider signing that when it crosses my desk. I want to- - Again, you have to kind of shift gears when you're going from one subject to another. From what I've seen, what I've read, what I've heard, I think it is acceptable.

We have to realize that when some of these districts get to 80,000, 100,000 people, and when we have the kind of growth that we'll experience over the years, smaller districts are going to be considered, and they should be considered. We'll need, at some point, some form of economic equalization to run consistent with that. We've been able to do it for the WPU as it relates to the income tax. We need to somehow look at doing it in a fair way for capital projects.

And whatever split occurs here, the new district, will be effective in '09. So we've got a couple of legislative sessions, here, a couple of years, a couple of cycles to work out the economics of equalization, and it's gone to a task force now, and I think that's an appropriate place for it to be until we have a good plan

ROD DECKER, KUTV 2: The- - as the election goes forward now, the east side, which has most of the money, gets to vote in Jordan, the west side, which has most of the children, does not get to vote. However, if nothing happens in the future then they get, they're going to pay much higher taxes for their education. And we don't know, I don't know what will happen in the future. Is it fair that the east side gets to vote, and the west side does not get to vote? Is there a reason you're going to sign that into law?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: Well, when I sign it I'll give you every explanation as to why I'm signing it. I'll take a good look at it before I sign it, and I'll do the right thing.

TOM JORDAN, METRO NEWS: Given the western climate initiative that you've been going forward on, you've been down around the coal country, found anything, that industry is such a large one, and so much of our electricity comes from it, finding things that are going to fit with new technologies in coal? Like, oh, gasification or biomass coal burning or things like that?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: There are some very exciting new technologies on the horizon, and they will have to be part of our mix. If we have a greenhouse gas emissions goal that we're embracing for the region, and we will for the state in June of '08, then we're going to have to comply with that. And that will assume the adoption of new technologies. And listen, it's not just for electricity. It's going to be for all types of manufacturing, for automobiles, for the kinds of fuels that we're using. I think we're actually on the cusp of a very, very exciting time, a revolutionary time as it relates to energy, and energy independence, which I think is so needed in this country, and also creating a lot of new jobs and new industries around greener, cleaner forms of powering ourselves.

JULIE ROSE, KCPW 88.3: Governor, you have been clear that you don't like to call special sessions, that lawmakers don't like them either, generally, they say.

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: They mentioned that yesterday.

JULIE ROSE, KCPW 88.3: They did and you insisted before you called this special session that you needed to see consensus, that legislative leaders had to basically promise you that what they were going to bring forward had consensus. And clearly there was not consensus about equalization, it didn't happen. So was this special session a failure? Should it have happened, given what the outcome was?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: Any student of political science knows that it's far from a science, it's more of an art form. And that all things are iterative. You go piece by piece in kind of getting to the end point, and I thought we'd see a little more movement on Henry's law. I had to go back and explain to Winston and Eddie why it didn't happen last night, but we are closer in the sense that we have the humane society working with senator Christensen, in getting us to where I think we need to be the next general session, and that's good.

And with the whole equalization in the school district split, these are big issues that are going to be part of our existence for the next several years, and they need to be done right. And I think when you call a special session, if it's a step closer to the end point, which we are, then you have to call it a successful outcome.

RICHARD PIATT, KSL 5: Was it your understanding that there was consensus on Henry's law before the legislators met yesterday?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: No, but I promised to put it on, and if I promise to people I'm going to do something, I try to do it, and after the last session ended, we were very, very close to completing something on Henry's law and I made the commitment that if we had a special session, I would put it on.

RICHARD PIATT, KSL 5: Was that because Winston and Eddie were demanding it?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: Partially, but it's also because some others were demanding it, too. I think clearer headed thinkers.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET MORNING NEWS: The sticking point on Henry's law seems to be what happens on a first offense of animal cruelty or animal torture. Advocates of Henry's law believe it should be a felony, period. Senator Christensen and others representing the agriculture industry believe that there are problems with that, and maybe it shouldn't be a felony until a second offense, or maybe only in extreme cases. Do you have an opinion on that, as the person who's sort of been the advocate behind Henry's law?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: Yeah, if what we have learned in the wake of, is it Michael Vick? Famous football player. If what we have learned in the wake of that tragedy hasn't taught us something about first offenses, then nothing will.

I think that's created a lot of, a lot of opened eyes about animal cruelty that we all can learn from, and so for me, that really answers the question, it's first offense for me. And if we get to first offense by first arriving at second offense, or some minimum mandatory that might be some agreed-to consensus. Then to my mind that is a step closer, and that's progress.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET MORNING NEWS: So you have some flexibility on whether it's actually charged as a felony automatically on a first offense, as long as that possibility is open?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: So long as we're making progress. So long as we're better than we were yesterday, and I think that would put us better off than we were yesterday

BROCK VERGAKIS, ASSOCIATED PRESS: There were some elements of that animal cruelty bill that actually lessened the offense. Is that making progress if you go one step up toward a felony, and one step down on the misdemeanor level?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: Well, what is important here is that you've got the advocates by way of the Humane Society and Senator Christensen, who, after the session last night talked about where we go from here, and I think if they can arrive at a conclusion that they're comfortable with, I think that's a pretty good sign and we'll just have to wait to see what that is definitively.

KEN VERDOIA, KUED: Governor, we've moved just into about the last minute of our program. People tuning in on a regular basis might note that you're not wearing a tie tonight. It's not necessarily a reflection of a casual day at the office, it probably is more indicative of your recovery from your rotator cuff surgery, and maybe it's appropriate to ask you how you are progressing in that recovery period? Even though you're not following your doctor's orders?

GOVERNOR HUNTSMAN: In short, my apologies to Dr. Bob Burkes, who's a great doctor and a great friend, and I apologize to him for not heeding any of his advice from the second day forward, but it's progressing well, and I look forward to getting back to an active lifestyle, mountain biking and running, and a few other extreme sports that I enjoy.

And but in the meantime we have other things that we're doing as a state, and the pain that I've seen in the faces of others have far exceeded my own, and it's certainly helped me to cope with this, which is insignificant compared to what is on the minds of a lot of other people right now

KEN VERDOIA, KUED: A telling reminder. Governor Huntsman, thank you for your time tonight, and a reminder that a transcript and a down loadable version of this news conference and every governors monthly news conference is available on line. Check our address and visit us on line for an ongoing contribution to history, from the Governor’s Monthly News Conference. Until next time, thanks for joining us, and good night.

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