October 24, 2018

"Well, that's why we have a legislative process that usually lasts 45 days, where people introduce legislation and they have public comment, public hearings, people come in on all sides of an issue." Governor Herbert

ANNOUNCER: KUED presents The Governor's Monthly News Conference, an exchange between Utah reporters and Governor Gary Herbert.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Good morning.

REPORTERS: Good morning, Governor.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: It's a little bit of a somber morning here at the University of Utah campus and as we all mourn the tragic loss of Lauren McCluskey and we mourn with her family, her friends, her teammates, the entire University of Utah community and really the community at large here of Utah and beyond.

I think we're heartbroken at the events that have unfolded. Right now, we have probably more questions than we have answers. I have every confidence in President Ruth Watkins and her team, that they'll do the investigation that's necessary to find out what happened and why it happened and where we may have had some errors and mistakes.

Likewise, there's some questions that we have regarding corrections, the Board of Pardons and Paroles and the associated public safety issues which we are going to conduct an investigation, in fact that's started already. We will make sure that we get answers to the questions that we have and take whatever necessary and corrective actions are required. That being said, again I think an opportunity for us all to pause and think in terms of love and compassion for those who are affected by this tragedy, giving the support necessary and to recommit our own selves to become better people. And to do what's necessary to have a good, civilized society that we live in. With that, that's my opening statement, I'll just go directly to questions.

BEN WINSLOW, FOX-13: Governor, what do you plan to do then if you say you're conducting an investigation into the Department of Corrections and the Board of Pardons. What are you looking at specifically?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I don't know, that's why we have an investigation, to see where there's been some problems occur or some mistakes made. We need to find out what the facts are and then react to the facts. There's a lot of speculation going on, there's some rumor going on. We don't want to react to that. We want to have a thorough investigation to know exactly what the truth is and then, if there's mistakes made, take corrective action and we will. And I think we can and we should. I don't want to speculate on what we'll find, but let's just do the investigation and then we'll respond and report back.

AMY JOI O’DONOGHUE, DESERET NEWS: Governor, do you think the university campuses should step up security in situations like this, where you have a relationship where there's obviously been some violence and there's been some problems. She has alerted the police about that and still we had this tragic event.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, clearly in hindsight, we're going to say you should've done this, you should've done that. You never know when these things are going to occur, they spontaneously occur throughout the country, throughout the world. And there's bad and evil people, there always has been and probably always will be. We want to do what we can to mitigate those occurrences from happening, protect those who are potentially in harms’ way and certainly respond to the police for help.

So, I don't know exactly, all the communications taking place, that's why I say I have confidence and faith that President Watkins and her team will do the internal investigation here on the University of Utah campus and see what happened, what should've happened, maybe what didn't happen and likewise from the state level, we're going to make sure that we investigate it through Public Safety, our Department of Corrections, our Board of Pardons and Paroles and we'll find out what happened and maybe what should've happened and maybe where mistakes were made, and we'll take corrective action. That's kind of what you do in life. Again, who knows what's around the next corner. We try to do the best we can, but we learn from experience and we will improve.

BOB BERNICK, UTAHPOLICY.COM: Let's talk a minute about compromise on the medical marijuana. How can you put to ease the people who are suspect foul play in not good happenings, you know what I'm saying.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I do know what you're saying, Bob.

BOB BERNICK, UTAHPOLICY.COM: And so, how do you, you're the backstop, you're the guy who's going to sign the bill or veto the bill when it comes out of the special session. How can you ensure these skeptics that it's really going to be a workable medical marijuana program?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, not only are they skeptical, but they're cynical. And that probably is just part of a group in society that are always cynical about anything and everything. I can tell you, having been in the beginning of this and the middle and out towards the end, that people have got together in good faith.

Again, I think most people are motivated by the fact that there is a product out there that many believe will help to alleviate pain and suffering. And that's the driving force here. We want to see if we can't help people that with maybe a new medicine here with cannabis as the base of that effort. I'm disappointed that the federal government has been so slow and dragging their feet on this as far as not reclassifying it, not having the scientific research, not allowing for clinical studies to be done, so we can have an FDA approved drug that we can actually get prescribed by a doctor and distributed by a pharmacist. In the meantime, the frustration of the people is certainly evident here and saying we're tired of waiting and are taking matters in their own hands.

But, even the proponents of Proposition Two have said it's flawed, it has need for improvement. And that's how initiatives tend to be as opposed to legislation which is amended and modified in public hearings and those kind of things, so you can actually get a better product. So, the good news is that people have come together on this, this is a classic example of people on different sides of an issue saying you know what, we have common ground, let's work together, let's come up with a better piece of legislation. And I've said, as we've tried to help guide this to its completion, that if it passes, we're going to have a special session. And we'll eliminate the flaws and the concerns that are in the initiative itself.

If it doesn't pass, I can promise you, I will call them back into special session and we will have a new piece of legislation that doesn't have the flaws in the legislation. So, we're going to end up at basically the same place, and by the way, during this special session, there's still going to be opportunities for public comment, get public input, to modify, to improve, probably the compromise we have now may be not perfect in itself. And this may be a work in progress over the next year or two, who knows what's going to happen with this kind of new challenge here of how do we provide a medicine that's not been FDA approved and it violates some federal law. I mean, there's some challenges out there ahead of us, but I can tell you that I believe, what I've observed is people on both sides of this issue coming together for the common good to help alleviate pain and suffering with this new product.

BEN WINSLOW, FOX-13: But, can you blame them for their cynicism and skepticism when the Utah legislature for years and years and years did not address the situation, then you get a ballot initiative and now everybody wants to compromise? 

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I can understand some of the frustration. That's what's drove the initiative. And I can understand some of the people that say, well trust but verify. I'm just saying I've watched the thing unfold and certainly the lights have been turned on and there's an awakening here that hey we can come together and come up with a common sense solution based on what we can do under the current law. It's not going to be easy necessarily, because the federal law is still out there.

We have problems with how do you pay for it, cash and carry, that's not a great environment, in fact this is an environment probably for additional crime. And we see in other states, that's in fact a problem. So, there's issues out there that aren't going to be resolved with this initiative that we want to continue to work on over the next year or two. And particularly, we need to call on Congress to fix the problem at that federal level.

BEN WINSLOW, FOX-13: Any concerns that the legislature might amend it and people who have opposed medical cannabis period would seek to undermine it in a general legislative session over the next two years as you said it gets modified?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, freedom of speech is freedom of speech, so, I can't answer for 3.2 million people out there in Utah, they might have difference of opinion and they'll exercise that right of speech and lobby their legislators, I'm sure. But, I believe the commitment has been made by the leadership of the House and the Senate, certainly in my office, we've been part of this discussion with all the different stakeholders and different points of view. Some have left the group, said we don't want to be a part of the compromise, we're adamantly opposed to it. Some that wanted to join the group because we're adamantly for it. And that's just kind of life. But, I can tell you there's been a sincere, I think good faith effort to come together, find common ground and we will have a special session one way or the other, it's going to happen. I'm the one that calls it.

MICHAEL ORTON, CAPITAL PRESS CORPS: Beyond the frustration, Governor, the flaws are becoming apparent regarding the initial discussions on a compromise. For instance the veterans heads here, veterans leadership indicate that the compromise is talking about only psychiatrists being able to prescribe medical cannabis for their veterans suffering from PTSD, those kind of flaws are now in the forefront and your comment on the flaw part of, past the frustration here.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, that's why we have a legislative process that usually lasts 45 days, where people introduce legislation and they have public comment, public hearings, people come in on all sides of an issue. They in fact introduce legislation, they amend the bill, sometimes 20 or 30 times. And, we end up getting a good piece of legislation. Sometimes we come back the next year and say, ah, the unintended consequence we didn't understand, now let's fix that flaw. So, that's the process, it's not really beginning, and now everything's hunky-dory and done, it's a matter of evolution, a process, we learn of maybe some areas that needs fixing and we'll fix them. And if the veterans and this issue is raised, needed to be addressed, I'm sure it'll be addressed in the special session.

AMY JOI O’DONOGHUE, DESERET NEWS: Governor, is there a state out there you believe has an ideal medical marijuana law?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: No, I don't, because the federal government hasn't done their part. You cannot have an ideal medical marijuana law unless the federal government does their part. We need to have the ability for science and have the clinical trials, the ability to discuss, you know, a major quantity, quality, how much adults should be there. In fact, impact to growing, youthful brain as people suggest is really an addiction aspect to this and in your younger years, maybe not in your more senior years. Those are all questions that need to be answered and could be answered if we went through an appropriate process. Again, why that hasn't happened, you can ask people in Washington D.C., I've called upon our members of our Congressional delegation to be at the forefront and say, no more, the public wants it, we want to have some studies, we want to have the truth and we ought not to be afraid to do the study and check the science and see if in fact we can develop a medicine that doesn't violate any laws. That would be a good medical cannabis law.

REPORTER: Governor, when do you plan to formally issue the call for a session?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Probably after the election. We'll see exactly what takes place, so I don't think it'll happen until after November 6th. That'll give us at least, to know whether we're going to fix the existing law that's been passed, the initiative, or whether we're going to have to create new legislation and have that introduced. We pretty well have the structure for it, you know, the baseline as that's the compromise. So, we're not going to have to reinvent the wheel entirely, but we're going to have to build a little bit more of a chassis. So, again, I expect sometime in the second week of November after the election.

BEN WINSLOW, FOX-13:

Governor, coming up, there is the potential in 2020 for three more ballot initiatives, equal rights amendment, possibly beer, wine in grocery stores and possibly more down the road even more of them, the death with dignity law that representative Chavez-Houck has proposed. Any feelings on all of these initiatives coming up as a response to the legislature perhaps not addressing some of these issues in session?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well this kind of the year of the proposition and initiatives, some have made it on the ballot, some haven't. But, I believe that's an alternative to again, make sure that the legislature's paying attention, you know, we have two ways to make law through the legislative process or 45 day session or into a special session if I call them into that. But, we have the initiative petition process which is not necessarily a good way, but it is a check and balance to make sure that the legislature is paying attention.

I think our initiative petition process probably needs some working, because I think it's probably, the idea of having it is a good policy, the fact that you can have 110,000 people sign up and then 200 people take their name off and all of a sudden it kiboshes the ability for the people to vote and have a debate on the issue, I think is a flawed part of our current policy. That's more of an editorial opinion, there.

But, there's going to be issues come up all the time. I expect with threat of initiative, that maybe the legislature will pay better attention as well as the Governor. So, those who say that we'd like to have you introduce this and talk about it and pass legislation regarding this issue, we ought to pay attention. Otherwise, they'll go to the initiative petition process, so they got support in the marketplace, we'll have some more of these coming up. I'm sure this is not the end of it.

BOB BERNICK, UTAHPOLICY.COM: Governor, do you have some kind of a plan, speaking about these 200 people who were able to get the Count My Vote off of the initiative, do you have some kind of a plan yourself that you're going to present to the legislature?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, we're going to have some discussions. As you know, there'll be legislative leadership changes in the Senate and the House. I've already talked to people who have potential to be in that position. What I would like to do, and I think we would like to get together, so sometime before the 2019 session and talk about, here are some issues of major concern that we have, I'm sure the legislature has some, I have some and what can we do to work together to in fact address these issues. And so, one of them could be, that in fact is part of our discussion. But, I've got six or seven different initiatives I'd like to talk about and I'm sure they have a like number, if maybe not more. And I think, we're going to see what we can do this next session to work together in a very collaborative spirit to get things done.

BOB BERNICK, UTAHPOLICY.COM: Do you have any idea what some of those six and seven are?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Not today.

BOB BERNICK, UTAHPOLICY.COM: Okay, we'll talk later.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Okay.

BEN WINSLOW, FOX-13: Any concerns going into a special session with Constitutional Amendment C, whether it passes or fails, if you're back where you started with a little bit of a feud with the legislature.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: You know, again, I have great regard for the legislature, we actually do a lot of great things together, and so, I don't want to highlight one where we just have a difference of opinion, but I think our founding fathers of Utah and our own constitution provided checks and balances between the different branches of government and they were wise in saying one of the checks on the legislature is that the governor is the one that calls them into special session.

So, I support the status quo. I think we should uphold the constitution our founding of our state. I think that provides the appropriate checks and balances. And lastly, as we look through history as kind of a guide for the future, we find that there's never really been an occasion when the legislature and the governor have not agreed for the need for a special session on this issue or that issue. And whatever the significant issue of the day may be, it's only been this past year where we had a difference of opinion on calling a special session for one issue only and that was to change the election laws. And we did not have a concurrent agreement, I mean a consensus agreement from all branches of the government, the executive, as well as the Senate and the House.

So, that was kind of a one- time issue. I don't think that's enough to want you to change the constitution. I think if it is broke, which it doesn't seem to be, well, we don't need to fix it. I don't want to belabor the point. Again, I think what we've done historically has worked extremely well. We're the leading state in America and so no need for a change on that issue.

BOB BERNICK, UTAHPOLICY.COM: Has your PAC or anybody else that you're associated with given money to this effort that Marty Carpenter has started out now?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Yes. 

BOB BERNICK, UTAHPOLICY.COM: Can you tell us how much? 

GOVERNOR HERBERT:I don't know exactly how much.

ERIK NEILSEN, KUED: Governor, I have a general election question. If the Department of Justice, the U.S. Department of Justice has spoken out about problems that might happen in this election cycle and even in the mid-terms in Kentucky, their election website was hacked. I'm wondering what our election office is doing to prevent against any kind of malfeasance.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: You know, we're a very high-tech savvy state. We've had hacking has happened a number of years ago on our Health Department. That was kind of a red-alert to say, hey be careful, this is a new way to bother government, to hack into banking accounts, et cetera, rather than the old Bonnie and Clyde, go through the doors, guns blazing, now we can hack into the internet and have access. We've done some significant efforts to make sure that we have protections. And we've done that, we've also taken it to our National Governor's Association, it's an area of concern.

We have millions and millions of hacks attempts a day. It's just a new environment and a lot of it from foreign countries. So, we've done, I think taken the necessary steps to protect us. We've had a lot of attempts and no successes in the last probably eight years. So, that does mean we need to continue to be vigilant. Certainly elections are sacrosanct and we want to make sure they're protected. The idea of having paper ballots, you know, it's funny that we kind of come full cycle here, now we're saying maybe the most secure way is a paper ballot as opposed to some kind of electronic machine. Now, this disenfranchises some that have sight and impairment, if you have a paper ballot for somebody that's got to have a system and help them. And so, the electronic machines that came out of the Help America Vote Act were very much a godsend to that part of our community.

But, I think we're working things out, I think I feel very, very good about the elections in the state of Utah being accurate and being not able to be hacked and that people are being not disenfranchised, but be enfranchised to be able to vote and participate. Early voting has been a good thing. I think we're going to have great participation of this upcoming election cycle.

BEN WINSLOW, FOX-13: On the issue of Proposition Three, which is Medicaid expansion, there has been some talk amongst some lawmakers of unwinding the initiative if it passes. If that does happen and it comes to you, what would you do?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, the Medicaid expansion, again, has not been without a controversy since its inception under the Affordable Care Act. And Medicaid itself has been not without controversy. I remember hearing Governor Gregoire from the state of Washington, a good solid Democrat who said the budget buster of all budget busters is Medicaid. And now we've expanded that, so it's even made it more difficult. 

Many states that have expanded, when their estimations of costs have gone up more than double. So, they miscalculated how much it's going to cost their budget. Ours, you know, we're at about 19% of our budget is Medicaid. That's a pretty big number, by the way. But, the states that have expanded, it's up to 30% and growing. So, the fiscal aspects of this are something that we need to take and address and look at. I'm disappointed that we've had some proposals that I think made better sense than the initiative.

My Healthy Utah, which incorporated more of the private sector had the ability to cap, you know, and have a work requirement, part of it, to help people, if you're going to get health care, we're also going to give you the ability to get a job. You're here because you're getting underpaid, you don't make enough money. If you're unemployed, we're going to get you employment. If you're underemployed, get you better employment. Assuming that you're physically and mentally capable.

We have a waiver question at the Department of Health right now, which again mirrors in many ways the same thing of Healthy Utah, with the ability to cap it, so we don't have a runaway cost. It's one thing to say, we can buy it today and afford it today, but can we afford it tomorrow with the rising and escalating cost of healthcare and expanded usage of Medicaid. So, those are legitimate issues and we need to address that one way or another. We'll have to see what happens with the initiative, but I expect that we will all have to take a look at this and say, okay, we have a tax increase that's part of that, is that enough to cover the cost, and it may be for the short term, but I bet it's not going to be in the long term. And so, what adjustments are going to need to be made so we remain fiscally stable.

By the way, one of the good things about Utah is that we've been very fiscally prudent. And, unfortunately, we're one of only nine states that have a AAA Bond rating. It tells us a little bit about the fiscal, I'd call it fiscal foolishness that we see permeating out of Washington D.C., with a $21 trillion debt now and growing. And, some states are following that same kind of an example. But, not in Utah and we won't do that. I'm confident we're going to be fiscally prudent. If that means we need to make some minor adjustments if the initiative passes, so be it.

BOB BERNICK, UTAHPOLICY.COM: Do you think that you would have Healthy Utah 3.0? Because you got a 2.0 if I remember right.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, the initiative in many ways, tries to mirror the Healthy Utah thing and so we might have it. Unfortunately, it's not as good fiscally as the original proposal. But, you know, I think we all understand the need to provide access to quality healthcare for everybody. And for those who find themselves below poverty level, if you're below 100% of poverty, what is the mechanism to help you get access to healthcare. We need to start addressing the cost of healthcare, you know, cost equals access. The lower the cost, the more access. And we are just kind of skimming right over the top of that and as we see healthcare rising, double digit inflation per year, we ought to say, something's not working right here. Again, I think we'll have opportunities to address healthcare in the future. Certainly, if the initiative passes, what we're going to do with that and making sure that we stay fiscally prudent in the future is going to be probably the number one issue. 

ERIK NEILSEN, KUED: Governor, a lot has been made recently about this migrant caravan that's making its way through Mexico and you always have a particular view of immigration. I wonder what you think of what's going on with that and it being election issue.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, Utah's always been very compassionate and certainly more welcoming when it comes to refugees and migration. But, we also understand and uphold the rule of law. And there's a right way to immigrate into our country and there's a wrong way. Now, I understand why people want to come here. There is no better place in the world, and in my view, no better state than Utah to come to. So, I understand the desire of people to risk life and limb, sometimes with their children, say if I just get my child here, even if I get deported, as long as my child can stay there, they will have a better life. That's a love of a parent saying, I want a better life for my child, and America provides that. I get that, I understand that. We talk about needing to secure our borders and I think that's why we have borders. I don't know what the end result and goal for these 7,000 people who are coming from Horund, uh.

REPORTER: Honduras?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Honduras, thank you. Honduras to America, just come and knock on the door and say let us in, that isn't going to happen. And I think we need to have, again, call upon our federal government and the Congress and say, you know we can't keep kicking this can down the road. We need to not only secure the borders, which everybody seems to agree to, but we need to fix the gate, the gate isn't working. People who do want to come, some of them want to come and work and then go home, and the gate is shut so they don't dare go home, because they can't get back in. I mean, there's just a lot of issues that I think we're all disappointed that Congress can't seem to address and come up with some common sense solutions. So, that being said, I don't understand the motivation. They're going to get to the, I know that the President and the administration's working with Mexico to say stop them at your border so we don't have to stop them at our border. But, there's a right way to come to our country and this not the right way.

REPORTER: Governor, do you see any need for an outside investigation of the University of Utah Police Department and the handling of the tragedy this week?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I don't know that I feel like there's a need to investigate the security here on campus and the police department itself. I trust the President will do that, and her team. Our public safety people headed by Commissioner Jess Anderson is certainly there to give assistance and help review, if they need independents, we can certainly provide that. I think that can happen in a number of different ways, but we'll be working closely with them to make sure it's done in a thorough fashion 

ERIK NEILSEN, KUED: Well, Governor, thank you for joining us again this month.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Thank you.

ANNOUNCER: This has been The Governor's Monthly News Conference. An archive of transcripts, video and audio is available online. Please visit kued.org. Thanks for joining us.

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