June 26, 2014

"...as we continue to have emphasis on our STEM and better alignment with our schools with the market demands, pressure will be put on to in fact increase salaries and incomes for individuals as well as households." -Governor Herbert

KUED presents the Governor's monthly news conference, and exchange between Utah reporters and Governor Gary Herbert. This program was recorded earlier.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Good morning. Before I take questions, let me just give an opening statement if I could.

I'm sure most of you are aware that last week, we got new unemployment numbers from the Department of Labor, and I'm pleased to announce that our unemployment rate has dropped down to 3.6%. When I started out, it was 8.4% 5 years ago. This is the lowest number unemployment since 2008. So, again, I am pleased to see the progress we're making economically. I hope we don't take it for granted. As I've been around the country in the last few weeks in other states, clearly we're doing much better than most other states, and certainly almost by 3 percentage points than the national average. We're adding about 37,500 jobs a year, which is about a 3% growth rate, which is about our historical average.

So again, indications that we've come out of the recession and that we're moving forward in a positive direction, and we're consistently moving in that direction. There's always little ticks ups and downs, but we're moving in a very positive way. And the other thing that's encouraging is that our personal income is going up, so it's between 4% and 5% depending on the sector of the economy that's growing. So, not only are we adding more jobs, but they're higher paying jobs. And I expect as we continue to have emphasis on our STEM and better alignment with our schools with the market demands, pressure will be put on to in fact increase salaries and incomes for individuals as well as households.

So, a lot of reason to be optimistic when it comes to the economy. I am pleased for the work of the private sector and all those who've contributed to having a really robust and consistent recovery here in the state of Utah. Good numbers, good news for Utah.

ERIK NIELSON, KUED: Governor, on Wednesday, the Tenth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that Utah's ban on same-sex marriage was unconstitutional, and you have said that you would like to appeal the case to the Supreme Court. This ruling is the latest of a series of judgments by courts in favor of same-sex marriage. What do you think our chances really are that the Supreme Court will side in Utah's favor?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I can't really answer for other states and the processes they're going through. I can speak in terms of Utah and the need for us to in fact continue the process. We have differences of opinion on--under the United States Constitution where there is an inherent right for same-sex marriage.

We also have the question of whether a state, Utah, has the right under the Constitution in fact to make the definition of marriage. Is it a state right issue? And again, difference of opinion are out there.

The appeal of the Tenth Circuit Court was a split decision. We have one judge there, Judge Kelly, who agrees with the position of Utah. We can speculate and suppose what the outcome will be, but we don't know. I expect if we get to the Supreme Court, it will be split decision again. How it will come down, who knows, but that's the process we have under our Constitution to resolve these differences of opinion.

I think people of good will on both sides, you know, are putting forth their best arguments. I think it is inherently needful to resolve the issue and the confusion that exists out there in the marketplace by going through the process to its completion and get a finality and clarity. And that, I think, can only come with a decision from the Supreme Court. As I say all the time, you know, they're not always right, the Supreme Court, but they all are always last, and so that'll give us the direction we need to go.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: But Governor, the decision does put Utah on a track to be the state that decides this case. Do you think Utahns will want to have paid for defense if indeed the state loses its case at the Supreme Court and Utah is the state that establishes same-sex marriage as law of the land?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, you know, the luck of the draw, the timing, we didn't have a whole lot of control over and it just happens as it happens. But this is a very significantly important constitutional issue, not only the issue of do we have, under the United States Constitution, the rights of same-sex marriage that's inherent in the Constitution, which people have difference of opinion on, but do the states have the right to make the determination and the definition of marriage, which again, it's been kind of a historical view in the history of our country over 230 years. So, these are very important issues.

It's already been budgeted for. When we took on this challenge and had to defend the laws put on the books by the people of Utah, the anticipation was that this would go all the way to the Supreme Court. So it's already been budgeted for. The legal team's in place.

I expect it now, with the decision that's come out, there's significant review with the Attorney General's office and their legal team. It's over 100 pages long. And they'll look at that, analyze it, and decide what is the strategy going forward. For myself, I believe there is--it's imperative for the best interest of all parties to have this resolved at the Supreme Court level

GLEN MILLS, ABC4: If this does indeed become the sweeping case and the landmark case for same-sex marriage across the state and your name is on it, what do you think of that?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: It is what it is. I don't really think of it one-way or the other. I'm on the side of defending the laws that have been placed on the books by the people of Utah. We have a democratic process where the people speak. I'm the executive branch, I execute, and we defend those laws put on the books by the people. I think that's really inherent. By the way, if the law had been put on the books by the people through the legislative process, or initiative petition, or however, that said that in Utah we would in fact allow same-sex marriage, I'd be defending that law today if somebody challenged it and was going through the process of the court.

So, I don't think we should pick and choose the laws that we enforce and have our personal opinions get in the way once the people have spoken, and they have in Utah. We'll defend it until conclusion.

BOB BERNICK, UTAHPOLICY.COM: Senator Orrin Hatch has said he might introduce a constitutional amendment at the federal level to oppose same-sex marriage. Would you support that?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: You know, I haven't even heard about it. This is news to me, Bob, again, so I haven't talked to Senator Hatch. I don't know what the proposals would be. I'd want to look at the details just like any other piece of legislation. I don't want to weigh into it until I've heard about it, and seen it, and understand it. And I expect that, depending on what happens with the Supreme Court and the decision over the next months or a year, a lot of people will react in one way or the other. I'm sure there's a lot of unanswered questions that will come about because of this. So, we just need to take it a day at a time, a step at a time, and that's what we should do here in Utah.

RICHARD PIATT, KSL-5: You had special counsel, Gene Schaerr, handle the case for the state, his contract. After the ruling is now up, are you in favor of retaining him, continuing his work on this case?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I think he's a capable attorney. He's done a lot at the Supreme Court level. I have no reason to doubt his expertise. The Attorney General and his legal team will do that analysis and make that determination, and I'm sure that they'll let me know and at least have an opportunity for me to have that discussion with the Attorney General. I did talk with the Attorney General yesterday, who's out of town, so we are in communication, but we'll let that determination happen as we go forward. Again, I have no reason to believe that Mr. Schaerr wouldn't be a very capable partner in this team effort.

MAX ROTH, FOX-13: Governor, you are expressing support for the process, for defending a law all the way because it's what you do, but is that--are you suggesting that you're ambivalent about the law itself or do you support this law personally?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I'm not ambivalent, but my personal opinion on it doesn't matter today. In 2004, when this was being debated, Amendment 3, and people were asked to take positions, and sides, and articulate why they were for or against it, that would have been relevant. It's not today. The people have spoken. It's on the books.

The pros and the cons, the arguments for and against have been articulated and the people have spoken through the ballot box, so it doesn't matter what my personal opinion is today. It shouldn't matter what my personal opinion is today. I'm the Governor of the State of Utah, the Governor of all the people.

MAX ROTH, FOX-13: But there is discretion. Most cases that go to court never get appealed. They go to one court, a decision is made, everyone goes away, and so there's discretion on appealing and then on appealing again to the Supreme Courts. So, you're supporting that?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I do. This is a significantly important issue, landmark in probably its outcome. So, this is not just like typical lawsuits out there, this is a big issue, not only on a social side, but also on a state right issue. So, this is not just your average everyday lawsuit out there.

So again, there are discretions, but this is one I think needs to be taken to its conclusion. You will not have resolution amongst the people--whoever loses on this--whoever wins, the other side will feel like, "Hey, it's inconclusive. It wasn't completed. The game isn't all the way over. You're stopping." I think it's not wise on this big of an issue for governors or attorney generals to not in effect complete the process on behalf of the people. I've already articulated that before.

So, at least in Utah, and that's my jurisdiction, I think for our own best interests as a community, as a state, that we need to make sure that we go all the way to the completion of this effort, which, under our Constitution, says the Supreme Court. Now again, I'll emphasize again, they may not always be right. We know of Supreme Court decisions, we look back and say they were wrong, but they are last, and that will bring finality to this issue, and it will become the law of the land, whatever it is. And I expect it will be a split decision, whatever happens, happens, and we'll live under the law that's created by the Supreme Court decision.

ROBERT GEHRKE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: And in fact to follow up on that point you just made, if Utah loses, the final decision is made, Utah loses, you plan to give full recognition rights to same-sex couples?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: What I believe we will do is follow the law of the land. I think that's my responsibility as the governor, as the executive branch. People all the time say, "We don't like this law." There's a process to go through and change it. And so who knows what will happen after that, but once the law becomes the law of the land, my job is to enforce it and support it.

MICHELLE PRICE, ASSOCIATED PRESS: Governor, you said yesterday that you thought that this should be appealed to the Supreme Court as soon as possible. Does that mean you would discourage the Attorney General from seeking an en banc review from the full appellate court?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Again, I don't want to get ahead of the discussion and the analysis, and I expect that needs to take some time to germinate. We have 90 days to review this, to decide what we will do and whether we'll make an appeal to the Supreme Court. But for me, again, the uncertainty out there--I understand the anxiety that's created because of the uncertainty for all people, and I just think this ought to be done as timely as possible to get to a conclusion, and we'll live with the conclusion, whatever it is. And so from my perspective, the sooner we can get to the Supreme Court the better.

ROBERT GEHRKE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: But the en banc hearing would presumably delay that for a number of months, so would it be preferable just to go around--just to--by pass that?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well again, as I've said, there needs to be some analysis, and I'm not the legal expert here as far as the process or the arguments, but I--for me personally, I would like to get it to the Supreme Court as soon as possible.

RICHARD PIATT, KSL-5: Do you have a timeline when you'd like the en banc versus going to the Supreme Court decision to be made by?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, we have 90 days. Certainly we need to make that decision before then, but I don't know why we can't make that decision and come to an agreement on that in the next 30 to 45 days.

ROD DECKER, KUTV-2: Former Senator Dan Liljenquist wrote a piece in the Deseret News, and he said that your Medicaid program--your Healthy Utah Program, it offers incentives, as does expansion of Medicaid, the whole of the Affordable Care Art, for private insurance, for private companies to say, "We can save this money for health insurance. You go get it from the government," and that would overwhelm your program and the Affordable Care Act. Have you and your people considered that? Is there any merit to Senator Liljenquist's fears?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I think Dan Liljenquist has a good head on his shoulders for figures and numbers, and so I appreciate--I've talked with Dan myself personally about our alternative to Medicaid expansion called Healthy Utah.

There is some speculation that, in fact, if we move ahead that businesses will in fact say, "Why the headache? Why do I need to have part of my benefit package healthcare coverage? You just go out and do it yourselves through the federal exchange or get onto Medicaid." Well, it's speculation, and we don't think the numbers that he's put out, like 400,000 people would jump onto Medicaid, I think that's probably a little bit of an exaggeration. But that being said, that's the beauty of my approach.

It's a pilot program. We have 3 years to not speculate, but actually do something at no additional cost to the Utah taxpayer, collect data, which our Department of Health will do, and see what the actual results are. Then we can make modifications, changes, improvements, whatever.

Rather than speculate, let's do the pilot program. Let's do the demonstration project and see what the numbers really mean. See if, in fact, there's some kind of flee from the business community to get out of providing health care benefits and pushing people onto private insurance or the federal exchange, or will in fact the Medicaid role swell? You know, the truth of the matter is nobody knows, and so let's do the pilot program, help people, and see what the data shows us. Then we can make an informed adjustment if needs be.

ROBERT GEHRKE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: You had said previously you hoped to have a special session, I believe in June. We're in June now. We haven't seen a plan or an agreement between you and the Department of Health and Human Services. We haven't seen any real movement from the House toward your position. Is this something that can get done this year or is it going to be put off? What's your time horizon and what's the status of the negotiations with the HHS?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I'm always the optimist. I believe that we'll be able to find success here that I'm going to be able to bring people together in spite of differences of opinion that may exist now.

Again, part of the process is making sure that I have a proposal that I support. That's part of the negotiations with the Obama Administration. And I was there just 2 weeks ago, and I've met with the White House again, and met with the new Secretary of Health, Sylvia Burwell, who I feel very comfortable with. She's a very smart lady, comes from the private sector, understands business, understands the numbers. And again, we have agreed that, conceptually, this can work.

So, it's a matter of, you know, working out the details. The issue, as I've mentioned before, is the work requirement. I believe that what Utahns culture would embrace and desire is to have those who can work ought to be working, or at least engaging looking to work, and the state can help them in that quest. We know that there are people that can't work. They should not be penalized because of either disabilities, they could be physical or mental. We know that there's the medically frail. They'll be on a Medicaid program.

So, there's different gradations here and we've got to work out the details. There's about 35 to 36 different issues, by the way, we're working with the Obama Administration on, and we've agreed on about 26 of them. So, we're coming down the lower third. I expect, over time, we negotiate and talk with them about every week, that we'll be able to get something that the legislature can feel good about, at least a starting point. We're trying to keep them informed so they know what we're doing.

I took Representative Jim Dunnigan back with me to Washington here 2 weeks ago so he could see the process and be a part of the process to kind of help the House understand. And I've talked to Senate President Wayne Niederhauser. He knows what we're doing. So, we're trying to keep them informed. Eventually, they're going to need to have a time to digest what we have as the official plan, and debate the pros and the cons, do their own due diligence, and then they will be in a position to vote. I hope that can happen this year.

GLEN MILLS, ABC-4: So, you talk about a starting point with the legislature. What areas do you think you may have to give and take with the legislature to make this happen?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I think what we've started with is that doing nothing is not an option. I think everybody seems to have now embraced at least that point, that we have people out there that need help, the government does have a role to play in that help, along with private charitable care, the private sector. It's going to be a combination of both, so doing nothing is not an option. The question is, you know, what do we do? How do we take care of those that are least up to 100% of poverty and do it in the way that's respectful of the taxpayer?

As I've looked at the possibilities and the options, getting our own money back--we're being specifically charged under the Affordable Care Act taxes -- where we send about $680 million back to Washington D.C., $258 million of that comes back for what we would call Medicaid expansion. I would just like to redirect that into a private sector approach, create Healthy Utah, which we have different parameters and more requirements for the recipient to be a partner in this effort and take on some individual responsibility. And I think parts of those principles the legislature would embrace also.

So, I think we're--it's more than just one point. The devil’s in the details. There's the concern of the long-term ongoing costs. I understand that. That's again why the beauty of a pilot program is we can understand what is the benefit to the recipient. Are we really helping with better health care outcomes, more choices, more access to better doctors, more health care? What's the cost to the state going forward? Is it going to become a budget buster in the future or do we find it's a reducer of our obligations? Are we getting better bang for the taxpayer's dollars?

We'll do that analysis as well as what the federal obligation is, and can they commit and honor their commitments. Again, the beauty of 3 years of study will give us detail and data, which will help us shape, going forward, the Healthy Utah program. In fact, 3 years, but we probably have it set up now that we could get through probably the year 2020 without having to have any additional money from the Utah taxpayers. And frankly, as we get this with maximum flexibility, more of a block grant approach, I think we're going to find efficiencies in the system and save money in the process.  

ROD DECKER, KUTV2: Are you going to run again?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, you know, I'm thinking about doing that very seriously. I know that it's--how it got leaked, who knows, but I did meet, as I do every year, with my core supporters. And so I have 50 or 60 people that showed up, and there's been a lot of speculation. I'm sure people are curious. We know what's happened in the discussion out there about what is going to happen in 2016. I find it a little bit awkward that we're talking about 2016 and we haven't even finished the elections of 2014, but with the encouragement and the questions being asked, I told my supporters that it is my intention to run again in 2016. I'm certainly going to do what I need to do to put myself in a position to do that, but I did emphasize, and I'll tell you, this is not a formal announcement, but it is my intention to run in 2016.

BOB BERNICK, UTAHPOLICY.COM Could you change your mind?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: You know, I guess that's always possible. Clearly my intentions are--I've done a lot of self-introspection because of the questions that have been posed and the activity out there. People need to know. Those who want to run, you know, have to run against the governor, is it going to be an open seat? So I understand those questions that go around the political environment out there.

But I've looked at, you know, what are the possibilities out there for me running and being re-elected? What are the opportunities as Chairman of the NGA, and can Utah be on a bigger stage and really help shape the country? What are the goals we have in place and can we realize those goals? I'm very concerned about education and what we need to do by 2020. So opportunities, goals, health, family considerations, all those factor into, you know, whether I should run again in 2016.

ROBERT GEHRKE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: Why did you make this--have to make this announcement to a group of the political elite in the state, I mean, instead of making--

GOVERNOR HERBERT: They're not political elite. They're people that have been strong supporters of me in the past. They come from all walks of life. They've been core supports of me. And they want to know because they're now being hit up by other people and saying, "Gee, should we find another horse to ride? Is there somebody else out there?" A lot of people are concerned if not me, who? And so there's just some natural curiosity. And so, again, I have a meeting with these core supporters, you know, every year. This is not unusual. But of course, the unusual aspect of this is that "What about 2016?" has become more and more a topic of conversation, and so we addressed it. So again, keep it quiet, 'cause this is not an official announcement, but I am, you know, intending to run in 2016.

BOB BERNICK, UTAHPOLICY.COM Are you going to do some more extra fundraising this year?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I don't know if it'll be extra. You know, we kind of have a pattern that we go through, different fundraising activities that helps with my PAC, which is designed to help other people of like mind, conservative thought elected officials, not only in the legislature but the local level.

We have opportunities to participate in national forums now and represent Utah. We're getting requests all the time, you know, "Why is Utah being so successful and my state not?" Come and talk to us. I just did a trip to New Mexico. So again, there's needs to have funds and for our PAC activity, so that will just continue as per usual. And of course, the process will then transition to campaign mode at the appropriate time, which I don't think it really should happen 'til sometime next year.

RYAN CUNNINGHAM, KCPW: With the Healthy Utah plan, are you driven by a sense of morality to get that done?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Absolutely. You know, I think we have a moral obligation to help those who are most vulnerable amongst us. We have people in our society that need help, and they are deserving of help, and there's multiple ways to help people, and charitable care, government assistance.

We have programs in place that we utilize, whether it be our SNAP programs, or TANF programs, you know, government assistance programs, job training to help them help themselves. I've kind of come down on the side of let's teach people to fish rather than just give them a fish. And so it really is a moral obligation.

But it should be a combination effort of everybody working together to help those who need a little helping hand. This alternative to Medicaid expansion, Healthy Utah, is designed to specifically be a transitional tool. So when people need help, they can transition to government assistance, to self-sufficiency on their own. So part of it's going to be helping people get a job, getting them training, getting better education, and I think that respects the taxpayer dollar and gets a better bang and a better outcome with taxpayer assistance than just a traditional Medicaid program.

RYAN CUNNINGHAM, KCPW: So, contrast that with how your moral compass doesn't really come into play with the same-sex marriage case.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I don't understand the question. You know, the moral compass is certainly a part of the discussion and debate out there that people put forward, and certainly that happened in 2004 when we had the debate. Right now, it's past the debate stage is why do we have the law in the books? We have the law in the books, and there's confusion out there as far as what the truth of the matter is.

The question is, is there, under the United States Constitution, been found an inherent right to same-sex marriage? That's a new concept, and we need to resolve that, and we have a process in place to do it. It could have been done legislatively if the people really rose up and said, "Hey, we want to create a law that would expand our definition of marriage." That could have happened, it didn't, so this is the process through the courts we are left with. But it's also very important that we understand what the state's rights are on the definition of marriage. We see different parameters in our states in defining marriage, and who can marry, and how you can marry, and common law, and division of property, and divorce proceedings. So, it's been the domain of the states in the past. People of good will have difference of opinion. That's why we're in court.

Governor, we've come to the end of our time. Thank you very much for joining us today.

Thank you.

This has been the Governor's monthly news conference. An archive of transcripts, video, and audio is available online. Please visit KUED.org. Thanks for joining us.

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