February 19, 2014

"...we've got all of our schools now wired to the front door. We've got money in the budget this time for increased technology advancement and so it's something that I very much support." -Governor Gary Herbert

KUED presents "The Governor's Monthly News Conference," an exchange between Utah reporters and Governor Gary Herbert. This program was recorded earlier.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Hello. It's good to be with you, as always, and thank you for coming and I appreciate this opportunity we have to share together and it's a good opportunity for you to get off the Hill. I know you spend a lot of time up there at the Legislature and I appreciate the work that you do. I just want to tell you, "Thanks." It's important what you do to help get the information out to the people and let them be a part of the process during our legislative session.

I just want to mention to you that I appreciate the good work of the legislators and what they're doing on some difficult issues. I'm going to be leaving tomorrow to go to Washington, D.C., where the polling tells us that less than three out of ten Americans think that America's going in the right direction. Fortunately, here in Utah, it's just the reverse of that. But I have an opportunity to go back and meet with other governors. About 40 governors will show up and we exchange ideas on different issues like energy, public lands, healthcare, social services, the economy. Those kinds of things which we are doing quite well in many of the states and we learn from some of the successes and failures of other states to help us all get better.

We have an opportunity to meet with President Obama and Vice-President Biden, kind of a culmination of our efforts back there with the National Governors' Association and so an opportunity for Utah to be at the forefront in helping shape national policy. And frankly, I do believe that states are the best hope. We're laboratories of innovation and democracy. We are little pilot programs going on all round the country. We learn from each other, our successes and failures, and hopefully develop better policy because of it. So I'm excited about going back this weekend and representing Utah and look forward to coming back and reporting to you what we're able to accomplish in that trip. So with that, I'm happy to take any questions you have today.

KEN VERDOIA, KUED: Governor, on Tuesday of this week, Republican leaders in the State House of Representatives unveiled a proposal to provide healthcare coverage for tens of thousands of Utahns who are currently living below the poverty line but are not eligible for Medicaid. In announcing the plan, House Speaker Becky Lockhart said legislators had been given a false choice between expanding Medicaid and doing nothing. Are you comfortable with the direction you announced yesterday?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I think it's a step in the right direction. As you heard me say here about a month ago, I said, "Doing nothing is not an option." And certainly with those that are falling through the safety net, about 60,000 people are living below 100% of poverty, it's a big issue for those folks. And there's a moral obligation I think that we have, as a state and as a government, to help those people in any way that we can.

Again, because of flaws in the Affordable Care Act, the Supreme Court decision, we have a unique situation where people are not being treated fairly across the board so the fact of the matter is that the House now has said that doing nothing is not an option 'cause they are doing something and the Senate, I think, is in the same place. I think that's progress. I'm very cognizant of the efforts we need to have to bring people together.

Let me also say that I respect the legislative process. I've had an opportunity to discuss and learn about this issue for many weeks and months. The Legislature's been in session for just three weeks and so they're having to play a little bit of catch-up to understand the ramifications of Medicaid Expansion and so that's part and parcel of the process that we have that's taking place and, again, although I have some concerns about the House version of what they've proposed, I think it's a step in the right direction.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: What are those concerns, Governor?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I think the concerns are that it is a false choice to pit federal dollars against state dollars as if somehow they're different. You know, we as tax payers pay the taxes, our hard-earned income, and a portion of that goes to cities, to counties, to state and the federal government, and some of it comes back from the federal government in shared responsibility. It's our money. And it comes out of the taxpayer's pocket. And so I would frankly just as soon not send money to Washington, D.C. I think we're better off keeping it home. That's a congressional decision and I would hope that they would, in fact, either give tax cuts or find more efficiencies in the federal government and take less money from us.

But when we have an opportunity to take it back, because I think the state is much more effective in spending the taxpayer's dollars than is the federal government, we ought to probably take a hard look at that opportunity. And Medicaid Expansion is certainly a part of that. I can tell you that the Utah taxpayer should not have to pay more and help fewer people and that's the proposal I see with the House that causes me a concern.

RICHARD PIATT, KSL-5: So the federal government supplies Utah with, according to a study released by the auditor yesterday, about, what, $4.5 billion every year. The House seems to be making a statement along the lines of what you're saying that we don't like the federal government interference in our lives and we're choosing Medicaid Expansion as an opportunity to send this message to Washington. But in the meantime, there are 60,000 people who don't have health insurance right now so the state is being asked--or the proposal is to have the state pony up $35 million to cover less people and pass up a $0.5 billion a year. So--

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, you've identified the problem, Rich, very well. Thank you. Why don't you come here and answer the questions?

RICHARD PIATT, KSL-5: I'm just wondering though if you think that going in that direction is appropriate. I mean, you're saying, it seems like, that you want to approximate something like that but less severe. Is that accurate to say?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, we're working with the Legislature. I spend every day--this is a complicated issue, if you've seen the proposal that's come out of the House, it's complex, and--to understand the ramifications. We're looking at it, we're analyzing it, trying to decide, you know, the pros and the cons of it. We'll be doing the same thing with the Senate and we will be trying to bring those two houses and bodies together and build some kind of consensus on what we need to do to solve the problem of those who are falling through the safety net. Without it being about solving the problem. There ought to be a practical reality here and a commonsense solution to the problem.

DAN BAMMES, KUER 90.1: But Governor, because this is coming out of the House now, have you waited too long to lay out your proposal in detail so that we can contrast the two clearly?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: No. We've been working with the Legislature and many individual legislators as well as leadership on what the issue is. Again, as I mentioned earlier, you have to respect the legislative process. They're just learning about this stuff. They're discussing it, debating it back and forth in their own caucuses, understanding what does it mean. Again, a lot of people are surprised of how much money we send back to Washington, D.C. for Medicaid and for healthcare and to say we're not going take any of it back, or just a portion of it back, is, in fact, puzzling to some, including legislators. So they need to have that healthy debate and kind of that discussion and realization of what the ramifications are, which is taking place.

Let me just say, back to what you said, Rich, there is kind of this notion that somehow the state is more reliant and dependent upon federal money. Again, it's our money so, again, I would propose that we don't send it back in the first place. In fact, I'm going to have a resolution proposed in the House, sponsored by Representative Robert Spendlove, HCR 5, which says, in effect, states ought to have the right to make a choice whether you want to participate with the federal program or not. But if we choose not to, we ought to be able to keep the money home or get a tax cut. So we're not in this position of I decided not to because I want to make a statement of fiscal irresponsibility in Washington, D.C., but yet my taxpayers get punished because they have to pay the money anyway. That's the bad choice.

By the way, our budget proposal we have on the table here requires--has about 26.6% of the budget is federal money. We have, you know, education shared responsibilities, transportation, health and human services, Medicaid, those things that we've decided as a nation and as states that we share those responsibilities in providing those services. The historic average over 20 years has been just over 25% so it hasn't changed much in 20 years, as far as the amount of federal money we're taking. So the idea that we're somehow becoming more reliant upon federal dollars is really a myth.

GLEN MILLS, ABC-4: Governor, in the end, would you accept a plan that only covers some of the proposed 60,000 that are going without coverage right now?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I think we need to find a plan that takes care of all 60,000, you know, those that live below the poverty line. Those above the poverty, 100% of poverty, can get in at the exchange, they can get subsidized healthcare and premiums, so they'll be taken care of. But the people below the 100% of poverty in what we kind of call the doughnut hole, we need to find a solution for all of them.

MAX ROTH, FOX-13: Governor, I wonder if, when you're hearing Speaker Lockhart draw this hard line, is she undercutting negotiations with the administration, with your administration, and with the Senate and, if so, do you continue trying to negotiate with someone who's drawn that hard line or do you just work with other members of the House?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: You know, you've heard me say this before, Max, that I'm conservative in principle, I'm a proud right-of-center Republican. I am moderate in tone and I am very inclusive in process. I'll sit down with anybody and have a discussion. You can be 180 degrees opposite of my point of view, I'm more than happy to discuss it and reason together. And let's see if we can't find a solution.

We need to make sure that we, in this process with Medicaid and these folks that need some help, I think there's, one, a moral obligation that we have to help them and the second part of that is what is the best financial reason to support them? Respecting the taxpayer's dollars. Where do we get the best bang for the Utah taxpayer? It makes it difficult for me to see them paying more money and providing help for fewer people. That seems to be illogical to me.

But I'm happy to sit down and talk with anybody, the Speaker, the Senate President, and the other 102 legislators, which we are in the process of doing with the intent I'm going to bring consensus. We're going to come up with something at the end of this legislative session and it'll be a consensus attempt to solve the problem for those people that need some help.

MAX ROTH, FOX-13: But on this point do you have a good faith negotiating partner in the Speaker?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I think so. Again, people have different points of view for whatever their motivation is. You'll have to ask that question of the Speaker. But I do believe that we can reason together and, if we keep our eye on the ball, which is solving the problem, we'll probably 90% of the time come to the same conclusion. If we let political ambition and other things get in our way, we may have a distortion out there. But I'm very comfortable with the negotiations we're having with the House and the Senate and I do believe that I'm going be able to guide them to a solution.

ROD DECKER, KUTV-2: Sometimes, Governors lead by announcing a plan early, using the bully pulpit and bringing people around. That hasn't been your style on this issue. You seem to say that you're going to use the legislative process to bring consensus. Do you ever plan to say, "This is the Gary Herbert plan, this is the Gary Herbert alternative"? I have a second question along the same line. Do you have a clear process in mind where some people are going to meet, sit around a table, and come up with something?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, timing is everything in politics, as you know, Rod, and use of the bully pulpit, I guess, is doing it at the right time. Again, I hate to sound like a broken record, but you've got to let the Legislature vet the issue themselves. If I just hit 'em over the head in the first day of the session, you know, they're probably going to rebel about that. Let them discover, as I've done over the past number of weeks and months, and see what they find out the facts to be and then let us reason together. If needs be, I'll use the bully pulpit if I think that's an appropriate time and place to do it, to get to the right conclusion. It's the end result I'm concerned about, nothing more.

ROD DECKER, KUTV-2: You may, if I hear you, you may announce a Herbert plan or you may work behind the scenes and what finally comes out is a Herbert Senate House plan?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I think you'll find that we'll have some kind of announcement, a little more clarity on where I'm at, as we work through this process, probably the next week or 10 days.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: Governor, it seems though in reality as if you have made up your mind and you're communicating it to us by saying, number one, that money's there, it's our money and we send it to Washington. It's being offered back, we're going to take it. Number two, all of those people, all of those 60,000, need to be covered. That sounds pretty clearly to me that you're saying we need to take Medicaid Expansion up to that 100% level. Am I wrong?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: That's because you're so good at reading between the lines. Clearly, you know, I understand where we need to go, at least in my own point of view and I think it follows my four principles. You've heard me say them before. One, those that can work will work. Two, we ought to support the private sector and not expanding government programs. Three, what government programs we have, particularly federal government, ought to be flexible. We ought to ask and require and get from the federal government more flexibility. And fourth, and this is really important issue, we need to respect the Utah taxpayer and do what's in the Utah taxpayer's best interest, not only in the short term but the long term. And if we can find a program that does those four things, I think we'll all be on the same page. And I am cautiously optimistic that we will do that over the next week or 10 days.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: But doesn't that get you to those four principles, accepting the Medicaid Expansion up to that 100%?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Yeah, we're working on fleshing out the details. I'm working with the House and the Senate and I'm going to direct this so we have consensus. I need to do it in conjunction with the Legislature. That's part of the law. It's also wisdom. They control the purse-strings so, again, you know, this is doing this in a right way that gets us the right outcome.

ROD DECKER, KUTV-2: On a different topic, the Speaker has proposed a big technology initiative for education, $250 million, $300 million, something like that. There are rumors that other education monies may be cut, specifically the 2.5% for--that you proposed and the committee agreed with for raises and retirement and healthcare. Maybe some of the growth money might be cut too. Do you favor or would you go along with cutting some education monies in order to do a big technology initiative?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I made a what I thought was a reasonable and rational and responsible budget proposal so I stand by the budget I put out there in the very beginning. Clearly, we ought to, as a number one priority, which is coming from the education community, the State School Board, fund growth. That's the number one issue. We also want to pay our teachers better and so we've increased the WPU to help give them some more salaries and more opportunities for compensation.

We have embraced technology. My Education Excellence Commission has been talking about technology since its inception over 3.5 years ago. We've been using computer adaptive testing, software for early intervention. We believe technology can be a complement to the teacher in the classroom. In fact, because of that, I asked a year ago under the then-Lieutenant Governor Greg Bell, to have a task force to study technology and particularly one-to-one devices. We've put into our budgets in the past, we've got all of our schools now wired to the front door. We've got money in the budget this time for increased technology advancement and so it's something that I very much support.

The issue that's been presented to us has kind of come out of left field. There has been discussion for two years with board member Dave Thomas, my new Education Director, Tami Pyfer, has been a part of that discussion on new technology. But at the end of the day, there's only so many ways you can slice the pie. And there is finite numbers of dollars. And so the $300 million, if that, in fact, became a reality, it's clearly going to have to be taken from someplace else. It could be any of the other educational priorities, I guess. It could come from transportation money. It could come from other health and human services.

I don't think the math works out. It's going to have to be a much more limited approach when it comes to technology than the $200 million or $300 million that had been proposed. And again, I'm going to be working. The Senate--Senator Howard Stephenson's got a proposal. He's been working on this for probably over a year and we'll work with the House and I'm going to steer them to reconcile their differences. And it'll be, I'm sure, a much more modest approach when it comes to technology at the end of this session.

RICHARD PIATT, KSL-5: Governor, what's your take on the way the legislative session is going? We're halfway through. We've got proposals like the Speaker's proposal on technology, her Medicaid Expansion. Are these distractions? Do you think things are going well? Do you feel like your relationship with the Legislature is amicable and productive at this point?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Very much so. It's early in the session to draw any conclusions, you know, give 'em a grade. I guess I can give 'em an "A" for attendance, you know, they're all showing up and doing the work and so that's good. And most of them get pretty good grades for citizenship. Not all, but they're doing a good job there.

RICHARD PIATT, KSL-5: Who are those?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: But--you'll have to decide that yourself. But we're coming up, you know, we're getting to midterm so we're getting to finals. There's bills being passed. I think we're working collaboratively, together. I enjoy working with the legislators, all 104 of 'em. I meet with Republicans and Democrats alike once a week. We talk about issues to make sure we've having good communication and I think we are. We understand that there's only so many dollars. The number one priority that they have is to balance the budget, and spend it in appropriate ways that are really respecting the wishes of the people.

Education for all of us is our number one priority now and that's good. We're all on the same page there. So it's more nuanced differences that we have. I've said to all of us, if we'll just concentrate on what we're trying to accomplish in solving problems and set aside political ambition and personal ambition and just say, "This is what we need to do to solve problems in this 45-day session," we're going to do some pretty good stuff. And I expect that's what's going to happen at the end of this session.

ROBERT GEHRKE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: Can I follow up on that just a little bit though because on the opening day, the Speaker called--an "inaction figure," I think was the term she used and you've cited political ambition. She says where, you know, she puts out this education initiative, you say it's too big or it's--you know, we're not going to get there. She puts out this Medicaid proposal, you call it illogical. Is there a dynamic between you and the Speaker that's caustic or hostile between the two of you? And what does that do for the process of governing the state?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, not on my part. I've known Speaker Lockhart for many, many years. Her and her husband, I consider them friends. And so there's certainly no animus on my part. You'll have to ask her, I guess, the question on her part.

RICHARD PIATT, KSL-5: But you're sort of implying when you've said repeatedly, "political ambition not getting in the way" that there's a danger of that getting in the way. Do you feel like you're on a--

GOVERNOR HERBERT: We have 104 politicians up there. You know, all the House is up for reelection. To think that somehow when the thought process that politics doesn't become part of the formula, you know, probably is to be unrealistic. Everybody's, "Gee, how am I going to do in my reelection? Who's going to challenge me? And what about this vote? How's it going to be perceived in the public?" So those things are part of it. I've said, all of us, including yours truly, we need to set aside all that stuff and say, "Let's just try to be statesman-like and concentrate on solving the problem on behalf of the people and let the politics take, you know, the back bench for now. And so all of us, it's, you know, again, politics are part of being a politician. That's the reality. Let's set it aside for 45 days and--

RICHARD PIATT, KSL-5: Maybe what we're asking in the context of Medicaid Expansion is that in the past, there have been years when the Governor and the Legislature don't get along, where there's a cold war and you can feel the tension in the Capitol. I'm wondering if it, on a topic like Medicaid Expansion, if you're prepared to go to the mat with them and say, "This is what's right. Go figure it out and you would and, you know, and let's come up with something that is more along the lines of what I want."

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I'm prepared to make sure we get the right outcome. We will get the right outcome on this at the end of this 45-day session.

DAN BAMMES, KUER 90.1: Okay, Governor. There's a bill moving through the Senate, SB 54, I believe, that would make the "Count My Vote" initiative essentially moot. It would do a lot of the same things. If that passes, gets to your desk, will you sign it?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I don't know what the bill entails. I've talked with Senator Bramble and it's been a little bit one way and then another way so I think he's trying to sort out what he wants to do. I am concerned about any time the Legislature tells parties how to conduct their affairs. I think that's an issue of concern for me. I'm also concerned though about the Legislature saying to the people under their constitutional right to have initiative petition that we are going to anticipate what you're going to do and consequently be perceived to be gaming the system to thwart the will of the people.

So my counsel to the Legislature is to be careful and to be cautious when it comes to this issue because it could backfire in many ways on the Legislature. Again, I respect the parties and their desires to conduct their own affairs. I respect the people and their desire to have an initiative petition and say, "We want something different." Let the process play out without any kind of games. I would also--I've heard from Senator Bramble, he is working with Governor Leavitt and his group to see if they can't find some common ground. I hope that's the case. I hope that's true. I hope they can kind of reconcile their differences as they move forward.

MAX ROTH, FOX-13: Can you see a situation where you've said that you oppose Count My Vote, you like the caucus system. But can you see a situation where if that bill you believe thwarts the initiative process, that you could veto it even though you agree with the bill's goal?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: That certainly is a possibility. Again, I'd have to look at the bill and see what actually comes out. But I think we need to be very sensitive to the people's voice. That initiative-petition process, which is a pretty tall mountain to climb in Utah, needs to be respected. Whether you like the initiative petition or not, the process needs to be respected and allowed to work its way through the system and see what the people say.

Again, I think if we don't do that, the people will be very upset at all of us. So, again, careful and cautious is really the words to use with the Legislature. Again, I do support the convention caucus system. And it's helped me to get to where I'm at today and I think it's a good process. There is no perfect system. You know, everything has got its pros and cons and no system works unless the people show up. And the convention caucus system works very well if the people will show up.

RICHARD PIATT, KSL-5: Does that mean that you'd be prepared to veto Senator Bramble's bill if it passes?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: It certainly would be something that would be on the table but I have no anticipation of that happening. He tells me he's going to work with the Mike Leavitt group and I think they can reconcile those differences. I encourage them to do that.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: Governor, quickly back to Medicaid. You're going back to Washington, D.C. Do you have any plans to talk about some of the changes you'd like to see in the offer on the table? I think a 90-10 split for that up to 100% is something you'd like to see as opposed to the 70-30 that's being offered?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: We always talk about waivers, more flexibility at the states. I think the federal government does err when they say, "Let's just tell you how to do everything and one size fits all." They ought to take away the strings, the states are pretty smart and they're all unique demographics and let them find ways to solve the problem that are uniquely there. So we'll be talking with other governors from Arkansas, Tennessee, Kentucky, and see what their processes are that I think are some maybe recommendations of how's it working there and maybe that's something we can take back and use here in Utah.

KEN VERDOIA, KUED-7: Governor, under a minute left in our remaining time. A citizens group has formed protesting the existence of the Common Core Standards for public education. Utah embraced those in 2010. How do you feel those Common Core Standards are serving the state and, more specifically, the kids?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, based on what I hear from the State School Board who adopted the Common Core, we call it the Utah Core, and based on what I hear from the vast majority of teachers and principals and superintendents, and local school boards, it's working well. It's simply a matter of saying, "Here's our common goal. We want to raise our math proficiency to a minimum of this level and reading and language arts to a minimum of this proficiency." And other states have joined in with that. We did pass legislation that says if, in fact, there's a federal overreach, we are mandated to get out of the Common Core. So, again, I'm comfortable where we're at and getting some good results.

KEN VERDOIA, KUED-7: And we're out of time. Governor, thank you for your time today.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Thank you.

This has been "The Governor's Monthly News Conference." An archive of transcripts, video with audio, is available online. Please visit kued.org. Thanks for joining us.

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