May 30, 2019

"U.S. News and World Report talked about us being the third best education system in America and number two when it comes to higher education, second only to Massachusetts." Governor Herbert

NARRATOR: KUED presents the Governor's Monthly News Conference: an exchange between Utah reporters and Governor Gary Herbert.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Good morning. It has been awhile, but it's good to be back. So thank you for your participation today and before we start, let me just make an opening statement if I could and then get your questions. I think most of you probably noticed we had a press release that went out here not too long ago about the Pew Trust, which doing an analysis of voting participation, mentioned that Utah went from 45th in the nation to 13th in the nation. And we had over 58% of our potential voters that actually showed up and participated in the election process here.

So that's a significant jump from 2014 until 2018. I think that's good news. I think that it shows a trend that we'd like to see continue. I think it's probably a result of many different things, certainly vote by mail which has allowed people to get the information early, allow them to kind of trigger their mind and be thinking about the issues and candidates in advance of election day, to be able to do that in the comfort and leisure of their own home and mail it in. I think it's helped increase participation. And I think it's given us actually a better informed voter, which I think is really very important aspect of voting.

I think making it easier has in fact helped to increase issues certainly of the day, whether it be the medical cannabis issue, a tight race in the 3rd congressional district, other races that bring people up to the forefront, but all those things working in concert. I do appreciate too that the legislature passed a piece of legislation which I think will in fact dovetail with what we see taking place with increase voter participation. The legislation we passed this past session as a requirement for us to have as part of the curriculum, part of our centers, not only understanding of our founding and the Constitution and basic economic, which I'm proud to see added, but also one on civic responsibility.

As proud Americans and beneficiaries of the freedoms and liberties that we have here in this country, that there also comes with that some civic responsibility to participate at the very minimalist level, that is to be an informed voter and show up and participate, let your voice be heard. As we do this, as we have better participation, I think that the legislature, those tasked with developing policy will have a better ability to reflect, which is what should happen in a representative form of government, reflect the will of the people and develop policy that they support. And so I'm very cautiously optimistic about what's taking place with voter turn-out. I hope that continues as we go into 2020. So with that, thank you very much.

Again, I'll, ready for your questions. 

BEN WINSLOW, FOX-13: Governor, on that note, at the GOP convention, there was open concern from the dais there about Utah becoming a purple state, more people switching from Republican to unaffiliated voters. Does that concern you?

GOVERNOR HERBERT:  Well, I'm not really too concerned about it. I think that there are certainly shifts that take place, always have been. At one time, Utah was predominantly Democrat. Now it's probably predominantly Republican, or at least conservative, right of center. And I think most states in America have kind of gravitated to right of center, maybe a little bit more moderate than we are in Utah, but still right of center.

I think we are seeing some shifting that takes place because of the infighting we saw in the Republican party. I think with new leadership now, there's a new opportunity, new beginning. I think some of those fights will now diminish, in fact, hopefully be eliminated. I think right of center people will gravitate to the Republican party because that's the right of center party, but some would like to stay unaffiliated, but would probably tend to vote more right of center candidates.

So we'll have to see what happens. I'm not really worried about it. I think the state's in good hands with who has been elected. I think there's room for diversity. There's certainly room for everybody. I'm a Ronald Reagan Republican believing in the big tent and those who agree with me 80% of the time are my friends, not 100% of the time, but 80% is our threshold 

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: Governor, next year is a presidential election year and top of the ticket for Republicans will be President Trump unless something very dramatic happens between now and then. Are you supporting President Trump and what impact do you think he's going to have on turn out, and just energizing these voters that you're talking about, these right of center voters? Are they going to be motivated to come to the polls or turned off from voting?

GOVERNOR HERBERT:  Well, you're asking for a little bit of crystal ball gazing, which I know you like to do, and my crystal ball probably is as foggy as yours. I think it'll be an interesting 2020 election for a variety of reasons. And I met here recently with President Trump and my good friend Mike Pence, the Vice President, who's a former governor. I like a lot of the things that they're doing and I can tell you that I've been with governors throughout the country, which includes Democrat governors who say we like the fact that this administration really does respect the state role in our concept of federalism as co-equal partners, not subservient partners. And there is certainly a willingness for the cabinet members and others to engage with governors of all stripes around the country.

We've had three cabinet members here just in the last three weeks here in the state of Utah. We have Rick Perry, Secretary of Energy, coming here in the next couple of weeks to visit with us. So certainly we've have entree to this administration and a spirit of collaboration and cooperation, helping us as a state deal with issues that have some correlation to the federal government. And so that part I feel very good about and so, you know, President Trump and Vice President Pence have not asked for my endorsement. We'll have to wait and see what happens down the road, but I am Republican and I like a lot of the things that's been done and I think we need to focus on what's being done as opposed to kind of what's being said.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: What would keep you from endorsing the President's re-election 

GOVERNOR HERBERT:  I don't know of any reason why I would not endorse. I'm working very closely with the administration, but I work with all people in Washington D.C. I've met with the minority leadership too in the Senate and I meet with the majority and Speaker Pelosi in the House. It really is, we're all on the same team.

We forget that sometimes in the hyper partisanship of Washington D.C. But we're all trying to find policy that helps us arrive at the goals that we all have that probably are shared. We want to have a healthy economy. We want to have healthy families. We want to, in fact, have good environment. We want to have access to healthcare. All those things that we'd like to see with infrastructure development, roads, transportation, those goals are the same.

We sometimes just differ on process about how to get there. And you know, sitting down and having dialogue and discussion is probably something we ought to do more of. As you've heard me say in describing my own political philosophy, how I deal with things, is I am a right of center conservative, but I'm moderate in tone and I'm inclusive in process. I think that's how you get things done, but that's my own style. That's the Herbert way of doing things. So, again, I'm ready, willing, and able to work with anybody in Washington D.C. on any issue.

MICHAEL ORTON, CAPITAL PRESS CORPS: Governor, you mentioned crystal ball gazing, but some would suggest that it's rather a rather intricate chess game and that 29 investigations being tracked by the New York Times into the current administration plan a little bit of difficulty for the GOP. How do you respond to that?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well it certainly doesn't probably help, but that's part of the hyper partisanship. Some investigations may be rational and even reasonable and expected. Others may be hyper partisanship of saying how can we knock the pins out from underneath the opposition? And we see some of that taking place too.

We are in a time with social media and you guys understand the media where we're siloed. We end up having, you know, the Republican go to Fox News, the Democrats go to MSNBC and they are reinforced their preconceived notions whether it's based on truth or half-truths or all truth. And so that's the concern I have is that we seem to be divided in such a significant way and that division is reinforced as opposed to saying let's sit down and discuss the issues and see if we can't find a solution.

Frankly, we're all Americans. We all are on the same team and yet we seem to be so divided with this hyper partisanship that it's a little bit discouraging I think for the American public.

MICHAEL ORTON, CAPITAL PRESS CORPS: And don't you believe that the administration has some responsibility for that division?

GOVERNOR HERBERT:  I think all people have responsibility for that division. Some of its prideful. I'm not going to say I'm sorry. You say you're sorry first, you know? So it needs everybody, need to kind of dial it back a notch or two and say can we come together and talk and discuss and see if we can't reason together and come up with a solution? That's what we do in Utah. I can only deal with Utah really and in Utah, we are very good at coming together and finding compromise and rational solutions that reflect the will of the people and because of that, we're getting really great outcomes. There's no state more successful right now in America than the state of Utah.

BEN WINSLOW, FOX-13: Governor, recently the Division of Occupational Professional Licensing said that it was going to treat medical cannabis just like any other prescription drug, meaning they won't take action against anybody who is a legal lawful card holder who possesses it legally and lawfully and the chair of the Health and Human Services Committee told me that he says that he believes private employers should treat it the same way. Your feelings on that?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, the challenge we face, and again, my great frustration and angst has been the lack of attention to this issue by the federal government. Think about how long we've been having this discussion.

This debate is what is the benefit of medical marijuana, medical cannabis, and yet it's been on the schedule on list forever, which eliminates our ability to test it, to try to get some medicine that's FDA approved, something to be able to be prescribed by a doctor, administered by a pharmacist, a controlled substance where we actually know the pros and the cons of this medicine. And that's at the feet of the federal government for their lack of action and attention to this issue, putting the states now in an awkward position of actually trying to follow the will of the people who want to have access to medical cannabis, and yet there's the potential of violation of law and our banking laws and other things out there because of inaction of the federal government. They ought to be ashamed. And that goes probably in a bipartisan way, certainly the past administration.

So again we're doing what we can. I think we're on a good road and the trend and I support what's being said. You know, let's move ahead and fulfill the will of the people. The law we have on the books here developing a medical cannabis program in the state of Utah is a good one. I think one that will reflect the will of the people and we'll test and see what happens down the road.

MICHAEL ORTON, CAPITAL PRESS CORPS: Governor, with 10 growers currently authorized to begin as least hemp operations, if not full-on cannabis in the state, you had once indicated that you would enlist the Utah delegation for solving those federal problems. Where are we at with that?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: There's discussions going on and I think the Trump administration seems to be understanding the problem. So discussion's happening, but resolution seems to be slow. Even President Trump has said to me personally, "Why does the federal government take so long "to do anything?" That's a great question. And the bureaucracy is slow as cold tar. It's hard to make decisions, there's division, there's arguing back and forth and rather than come together to solve problems, it's almost like how can I make the opposition look bad? And so that's part of the problem we see in Washington D.C.

That's why we, the American people, ought to say, let's devolve more authority back to the states as it was originally envisioned by our founding fathers. We would not have the problem with the states having more responsibility. The federal government has usurped more than they're capable of delivering and it's time for us to devolve it back to the states.

NICOLE NIXON. KUER:Governor, Utah and a few other western states finalized a new water use agreement with Colorado River Water this week. With climate change affecting water availability and drought levels, is Utah prepared to use its last drop of water from the Colorado River?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: If it keeps raining, we're going to have to talk about building an ark, you know, as opposed to how we're going to ration water. But clearly the Compact of 1922 and the amendments, the modifications being made, we have people that entitled, entities entitled like the Navajo Nation, which we're just working on the Navajo Water Trust and getting that taken care of, Senator Romney's picking up the cudgel there. It was handled by Senator Hatch. It'll be nice to have that one resolved.

The upper and lower basins and how we exchange waters back and forth is certainly that aspect of this. Water is a complicated issue because sometimes, you know, we think there's water there and there's not. We have it on paper, but maybe not literally wet water and how we apportion out and what we thought we were going to have and certainly with climate change and drought conditions, those numbers can change. Probably the original Compact of 1922 is not fair to Utah and to others.

California got I think the best end of the deal by having a guaranteed volume of water out of the Colorado River, where we just get a percentage of whatever's leftover. And so again, climate change is occurring and the ups and downs, again, as climate change, we've had throughout our history. I mean, it's been warmer, it's been colder. 

Climate changes for probably a variety of reasons, but I think, again, we're putting together in Utah a 50 year plan for water consumption as well as water conservation and what areas we can still develop more water because that's the most critical thing for us to do long range planning. It's the only limiting factor to the growth of Utah, which is now the fastest growing state in America.

BETHANY RODGERS, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE:Governor, this week we learned that Utah once again is last in the nation for per pupil funding. Can you comment on that and talk a little bit about what needs to happen to move Utah out of that ranking?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Yes I can. As you know, education funding and education's been my number one budget priority. And I think it really is hard to compare state by state by state. And so whatever the numbers that are coming out, I'm not sure are actually accurate. The numbers that I've heard bandied of us spending $7,100 per pupil is not correct. We actually are spending today over $10,700 per student in the state of Utah. I don't know how that ranks us in comparison with everybody else.

As you all know, we are the only state in America that earmarks by Constitution, every dollar of income tax has to go into education. So we have a significant commitment to the education by how we in fact fund. And last year, and last four years, we've increased our funding by 1.1 billion dollars of ongoing, not just one time, that's even more money, ongoing money for public education which is increasing the per pupil spending, I would guess, probably by over $1,600 per pupil just in the last four years. We had a record of number of dollars, almost 300 million dollars of new money in the education this past year, over 4% WPU plus other additional monies that go into education.

So, I like the trend. We certainly are not oblivious to what's taking place. We have some uniqueness that you ought to adjust to. Most states, their student population has level out, it's flattened and in fact in many states, it's dropping. So if you continue to spend the same amount of money and lose pupils, you increase your per pupil spending at least on the math. And in Utah, we have a growing student population so we have to pay money just to take care of the growth, just to tread water and then add additional money on top of that. Our birth rate is slowing down some. That means, in the future, probably we'll have opportunities to increase our per pupil spending even more, at least the math will show up.

The more important thing is what are we getting for our money, the outcomes, the achievement, the test scores and the good news is that we're knocking on the door of top 10. U.S. News and World Report talked about us being the third best education system in America and number two when it comes to higher education, second only to Massachusetts. Our NAEP scores are in the top 10 in reading, language arts, math. Science we're number one in eighth grade NAEP test scores. Our AP participation, our ACT test scores are in the top five in the nation.

So it's not all about the money. It's some about the money and we're doing better there and we still need to do better still. But the more important thing is what are we getting for our money? U.S. Chamber of Commerce says the best value for education in America, the best value for the tax payer, is the state of Utah.

BEN WINSLOW, FOX-13: Now on that note, some of the discussions as far as tax reform go is the idea of taking to the voters the idea of eliminating the income tax being devoted exclusively to education. What are your feelings on that?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I understand the thought and that is that let's give more flexibility to our budget so we can prioritize correctly. And again I'm one who's said to the legislature I don't like the fact that you've earmarked a lot of money for transportation. You've earmarked here. It restricts your ability. In fact, you know, nearly 40% of our general fund now is kind of already earmarked. So that's really taken off the table for any kind of discussion and debate. Many in the legislature like that.

They don't want to have to debate and prioritize and discuss, you know, what's the best thing to do. This budget cycle, which may be different from last budget cycle, may be different from the future budget cycle. Having that discussion and that decision-making capability I think is important. I think they need to have the discussion and the debate. So, me, I'm more than happy to eliminate restrictions on how we prioritize money and leave it up to the legislative body. That being said, the other side of the coin is, well, because we can have too much politics involved in it, will we in fact be short changed on education if we don't have monies earmarked? And so I think that'll be part of the discussion.

Certainly as we talk about tax reform, all things are on the table for discussion. We ought not be afraid of the debate. We ought not be afraid of the discussion. We ought to have, get significant input from the public and then make the decision on what tax modernization should look like going forward with the goal in mind of making sure that we extract only what we need to run government services and maintain our ability to have a healthy, growing, expanding economy which, as I've said many times before, is really the goose that lays the golden eggs, gives us the money to invest in whatever we think is the most important thing to do as we prioritize our budget.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: Governor, what's the timeframe look like for tax reform at this point? There was a real sense of urgency during the session. You had it in your budget to tax services. Law makers pushed hard on that, but couldn't bring it over the finish line. There was going to be this task force. They were going to get to work. They were going to have a special session to approve their findings. Well, the task force just got formed, hasn't even met yet. We're already a couple months out from the general session. Realistically, with everything on the table and this being such a big lift for everyone, are we going to see it in a special session? And then does it go to general session and then because that's an election year, it gets pushed beyond?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I know time flies when you're having a good time like we are having here, but it's more than a couple of months until our general session. It's just May as far as I know and so we've got about seven months or eight months before we really get into a general session. It's important that we do this correctly. I think there's been kind of a crescendo of what's taking place as people start looking at it and saying, "Oh gee, well I may be having "to pay a higher tax." This caused some anxiety and there's probably been misunderstanding as far as what the intent is to do and the cause.

When we talk about broadening the base and lower the rate, the intent is to have everybody pay less tax, not more tax. And so the task force is formed now and I think it's made up of really good people. There's going to be a significant outreach to get people to come and say what their thoughts are and their feelings and everything kind of being on the table for discussion.

And so I believe that it's important that we get it right rather than get it quick. I think we still have time in fact to have a special session, but we would not want to have a special session unless we have consensus where we have in fact respecting the will of the people and come up with something that's better than what the status quo is.

There is a sense of urgency from the standpoint of the status quo will have certain ramifications, you know, the next three to five years down the road. And that is our general fund will cease to be able to fund what we need to do for general fund purposes and there needs to be some modification, at least some understanding of that. So I think everybody seems to understand we need to do something. The real question is and what is that something that we need to do? So hopefully over these summer months, we're going to figure that out and come back, whether it's a special session or the general session and make some tweaks to our tax system that will allow us to have a healthy, growing economy for the next generation.

BEN WINSLOW, FOX-13: Where do you stand on the sales tax for services now?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: It's certainly one of those things that ought to be talked about and certainly is on the table for discussion. Again, broadening the base and lowering the rate is the watch phrase. And I think most people recognize that in fact we're becoming much more of a service-oriented economy. So you're just going to have to be, something's got to change. Either we have to raise the tax rates on everything else or we're going to broaden the base and raise taxes on some, but then lower the rate overall so we all pay less taxes. I think the end result of this is that the public should get the tax cut and if we can't get to that point, then probably status quo is going to be what we will suffer through. But I don't think that's going to give us a good end result either. 

So, again, we're going to have wise people coming together: the public, economists, and CPA's and business people working with the legislature to look at all aspects of this and we'll come up with a good proposal going forward. I'm confident of that 

REPORTER: food.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Tax on food?

REPOFRTER: Yeah, sales tax on food. There seems to be some, a growing impetus to put that back on.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, again, the arguments we all understand them. Again, the argument is that if we're going to have a tax on food, you know, then that's kind of a necessity of life. Most states if they've eliminated the tax on food, have raised the tax on hard goods. So you get, take it away here and give it back there. Poor people buy hard goods too. So we need to, you know, figure out what that will work like.

A lot of people argue if we're going to take the tax off food, let's just take it off for those who really are in need. So below a certain level. If you make less than $20,000 a year annual income and let's just give you not only not tax you for the food purchase you make, but maybe we give you a discount on food. And those who are wealthy shouldn't get a break on sales tax on food either at all because they don't need the break. So there's more than one way to, as we say, skin the cat, but that's going to be part of the discussion going forward and I welcome that discussion.

MICHAEL ORTON, CAPITAL PRESS CORPS: Add to all these grand items here that we are discussing, Governor, at the end of the next legislative session in 2020, there will be some transition. Your thoughts on that?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, there's always disruption in the marketplace. The market doesn't particularly like disruption and certainly elections have a disruptive impact on the marketplace, on the economy, on policy making, on politics generally speaking, but that's just part of the cycle. And we're going to come out very good in 2020 and we'll be in great shape to continue moving forward with or without me. 

ERIK NEILSEN, KUED: Governor, we have about 30 seconds left. I'm wondering, you haven't been to this venue for a couple of months due to health reasons. Would you care to talk about why?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I've had, it's not my cancer. People think it's cancer. I've had kind of a cold flu the last time. But, again, I'm a walking billboard for wearing sunscreen. We live in a high altitude, thin air environment and we all ought to be wearing sunscreen when we go outside and we probably lead the nation in a another category and that's potential skin cancer. And I have a squamous cell skin cancer that's been removed and I'm on the mend. I'm fit as a fiddle. There's not anything that's life threatening, but again, all of us understand the need to have sunscreen. We should wear it when we go out.

ERIK NEILSEN, KUED: Thank you for joining us. Good health to you. 

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Thank you.

NARRATOR: This has been The Governor's Monthly News Conference. An archive of transcripts, video, and audio is available online. Please visit KUED.org. Thanks for joining us.

Return to home page