April 28, 2011

"Clearly our seed corn for tomorrow economically is our student population. And it's not just public education, but higher education. "
-Governor Herbert

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Good morning.

KEN VERDOIA, KUED-7: Good morning, Governor, thanks for joining us today. The legislature will convene next week in special session to consider as many as four override votes of vetoes you handed down in the wake of this year's legislative session. In reality, the sticking point appears to be the earmarking of a portion of a growth in sales tax revenue to support road construction. Negotiations have been going on, they've not been fruitful. What separates you, then, from the legislative perspective?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I think, and again I have a lot of respect for my legislative colleagues and friends on both sides of the aisle.I just simply believe it's bad policy to earmark, particularly this large of a portion of our general fund budget, to transportation. It would be inappropriate to earmark anything of this size. But transportation, where we're going from about 15 percent of our sales tax revenue to now nearly 25 percent, earmarking one out of every four dollars, potentially jeopardizing and risking other priorities, particularly education funding, that ought to be looked at. So I think it's just unwise for the legislature to kind of come with a preconceived notion of transportation at that level of funding, where they need to kind of, in real time, prioritize as they go through the budgetary process, which is their number one function.

RICHARD PIATT, KSL-5: Lawmakers are saying that one of the chief concerns about this issue, one philosophical differences is that it could, down the road, translate into a gas tax increase. Do you have concerns about that?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I was pretty clear in my state of the state that I did not support any tax increases. There was, in fact, a proposal in the legislature this session for a gasoline tax increase. I would have vetoed that. Our fragile economy, right now, I think, would not warrant a gasoline tax increase. It's not about a gas tax. I believe that's a red herring. This is about taking a general fund that we have, and saying one out of every four dollars is going to go into transportation. We are already making that decision in advance, without having the ability to look in real time and prioritize, as we need to do in each and every budgetary session, which happens once a year. Again, I just think it's bad policy.

ROD DECKER, KUTV-2: Lawmakers say that you and they negotiated, and that they offered a deal, or there was a deal discussed where, instead of one out of every four dollars, it would be one out of every five. You said I'm standing on principle. Is that a true story? And why would you stand on principle?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, again, I know it's a novel idea for politicians to stand on principle, but that's what we're trying to do, here. We have a respectful difference of opinion on what should be policy going forward. We've tried to negotiate. Again, I appreciate the fact that the legislature has tried to reach out and say, can we find some common ground? We've tried to have those discussions and bring together and close the gap, we just weren't able to do it.

ROD DECKER, KUTV-2: Legislators say they polled their members, they've got 24 senators and 58 representatives, is their count. Do you hope to win this thing? Is your plan to go down fighting and have the public say, well, what a hard fighter? Or do you actually think you can win it?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: You know, this is part of the process. Again, this is not the end of the process. We'll have another session coming up here starting next January, in 2012. We believe in separation of powers, that's how our Constitution's been put together, the checks and balances, the give and take. And so my job is to review the bills. I mean think about it, they passed over 505 bills, I believe, and I've signed most all of them, vetoed only four. Again, that's part of the check and balances. And so, again, we'll give our arguments to the legislature, and they'll hear their arguments and back and forth, and I expect that each individual legislator will have to search their own conscience and make a decision on how to vote.

ROD DECKER, KUTV-2: Are you twisting Democratic arms? They need four Democrats in the senate to do it.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: We don't twist anybody's arms. We use logic and persuasion and facts and principle based argument. And we hope that will rule the day for our side. We will see. That's the process.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: Governor, you say this is part of the process, and yet a veto override session is very unusual in Utah. And it's particularly unusual anywhere in the country to have a Republican legislature try to override a Republican governor. You've got another election in just two years. You're in a fairly unusual position that way. Do you feel this weakens you politically? And why would your own party do this to you?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, we're an unusual state, and we're unusual in a good way. The fact of the matter is, we don't shy away from discussion and debate. We tackle tough issues, whether they be balancing budgets and reducing spending, not raising taxes, whether it's pension reform, health care reform, Medicaid reform, even immigration. So again, we have had great results, and we're getting national acclamation for our goodness and our success. So again, that's part of the process. We are unique in what we're doing now. But again, it gives to good outcome, and that's what the public wants. They want me to play my role, they want the legislature to play their role, and we're not rubber stamps for each other.

RICH PIATT, KSL-5: But Governor, you made it clear when you were negotiating this, you negotiated until 10:30 at night one night, that you didn't want an override session. Isn't it true that part of the reason you didn't want an override session is because it's politically embarrassing?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: No, not at all. What I want to have is good policy. And if we can negotiate and get good policy, that's a good way to do it. Again, if we cannot, in fact, come together on policy, then we end up having, you know, veto override sessions and vetoes of bills. Again, that's how the process should work. And I applaud the process. Again, I'll play my role as I should, as a check and balance on the legislature. They will do what they need to do themselves. If we can negotiate, and most of the time we negotiate in advance. We shape bills in the process so we don't have to have a veto. And we've had great outcomes. We'll have a good outcome with this.

BILLY HESTERMAN, DAILY HERALD: Considering the number of construction projects that are put out into the future that need to be funded still, isn't it good policy to set this money aside for those projects to be funded?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: You know, that's kind of the myth of 229. This creates no more money. It's a finite amount of money in the bucket. The legislature has the ability to come into session, and with flexibility decide how much to spend. We've been spending about 15 percent of our sales tax revenue on roads. We've had some robust construction. We're spending $3.8 billion today on road constructions throughout this state, with $400 million to yet be put out to bid this session. So it's not like we've shortchanged transportation. We know that's a growing part of our needs. But we also have growing needs in education. We cut higher education two and a half percent this past session in the face of record numbers of enrollment. You'd think that, again, if I tried to do this to the legislature by executive order they'd push back on tying their hands so fast that my head would spin. So I'm just saying, you know, having flexibility, having the ability to come into session, look at, in real time, what is the issues of the day, and then prioritize them accordingly, is good policy, and good budgeting practice. So again, that's why I've stepped in in this, in spite of the overwhelming passage, I think there's been a little group think on this, and we are, if people think we're not going to continue to fund roads and transportation I've been one of the biggest supporters of transportation funding ever in the executive branch. We're going to continue to make sure that that's a priority. But it ought not to be a priority to the extent that one out of every four dollars is already preconceived as where we're going to spend our budgetary money.

MAX ROTH, FOX-13: Governor, this money would go towards a big industry, and maybe the biggest industry that contributes politically in the state of Utah. With the possible exception of health care, there's not a bigger lobby up on the hill than transportation. Should the public be concerned that the industry with the biggest lobby, with the most funds going into politics, is the industry that would be getting a guaranteed one quarter of all sales tax?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I think there's always a concern that somebody's getting undue influence, or having undue influence. I don't believe that's necessarily the case. Again, I think there's an argument, we need to have infrastructure, and we need to have roads and transportation, and I agree with that need. It just needs to be taken in conjunction with all the other needs we have in the state, with a finite amount of money.

JEFF ROBINSON, KCPW-88.3: When it comes to raising the gas tax, Governor, as you noted there was a bill during the session that failed in the Utah Senate to do just that. Supporters of raising the gas tax include the Salt Lake Chamber, which is hardly a pro tax organization. If you want to be pro transportation and the gas tax hasn't been increased for so many years, shouldn't we consider raising it?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Thirteen years. I think what ought to take place is some kind of robust discussion about, what are we going to be doing long term with transportation? We just completed, for example, over a year period of time, a ten year energy plan for Utah, which I think is a significant step in the right direction. Here's where we are, here's where we want to be, and here's a pathway to get there. I think we ought to do the same thing with transportation. And in fact I'm considering now, in light of this discussion, of calling and having a transportation summit, getting all the stake holders together, and see what we should be doing now, here's where we're at today, here's where we need to be tomorrow, and let's develop a pathway to get there. Again, I think that's part of what we need to have. Some of 229 has been just taking numbers out of the sky, without really having some kind of a discussion and say, "Is this the right number? Is one in four right in conjunction with other things? What is our pathway forward?" Let's have a discussion. I think we bring in the business community, the people that are involved in construction, education folks and their role that they're going to play. What we don't want to do, I think, is take away money for education and kill the goose that's laying the golden egg. Clearly our seed corn for tomorrow economically is our student population. And it's not just public education, but higher education. And so again, we want to make sure that as we are coming out of this economic downturn, and as fragile as it is, that we do things to build the economy, which is the best thing we can do for any kind of construction. We want to make sure the private sector is building roads, private sector is building houses, that construction continues to flourish. Because of the private sector, not just because of government largesse.

RICH PIATT, KSL-5: Governor, has anyone ever floated the idea of devoting a dedicated fund like this to education? The bill that was created that dedicates this money to transportation was created several years ago, and now they're essentially adding to it. So has there ever been a discussion, has anyone ever floated the idea, and do you support the idea of doing this somewhere down the road, of devoting this kind of money to education, which is another growing need in the state?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, in fact, we've done the reverse. We have, by Constitution, a dedicated fund, it's called income tax. All corporate, individual income tax is, in fact, a dedicated fund for education. We modified the Constitution because it used to be just for public education, so that it now includes higher education, too. So we have a dedicated fund for education called income tax. I haven't heard anybody talk about having an additional fund. Again, we have significant needs in our state, and it's not just education, but our public safety, which we haven't had any more cops on the street now than since we've had in like 1980. We have a growing population with the prison population. We had that discussion this past session. So public safety issues. Health and human services, growing demands for Medicaid. There's uncertainty out there in the marketplace. What's going to happen with the Affordable Care Act, and the mandates to the state? I'm working with governors right now on the Transportation Reauthorization Act. We don't know what's going to come out of Washington on funding for transportation. So there's just some uncertainty out there that I think, you know, flexibility ought to be the watch word, rather than rigidity. And setting aside one in four for transportation is probably not a good place to start. And I just respectfully disagree with the legislature, I think it's bad policy.

JOHN FLOREZ, DESERET NEWS: Governor, is anyone really thinking about the information age and transformation to information instead of goods?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: The information age and new technology?

JOHN FLOREZ, DESERET NEWS: We ought to be transporting information instead of just goods and services, because we're not making money on goods and services. Those aren't the good paying jobs.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, again, Utah is probably as high tech and as high tech savvy as any state in America. We have the highest percentage of home computer use, for example. Our young people are very productive and energetic and high tech savvy. Again, I think we stack up well with anybody. Our state has been received recognition as a high tech state. We have over 900 of our services now on line. We're open 24/7 so people can have access to our government services. We, in fact, have significant corporations and businesses that are expanding their profitability because they are going more high tech. We're doing medical device high tech. We have a lot of different companies that are high tech. So I think, at least from our perspective in government, better, in fact, on the cutting edge of technology and the information age. We're doing it with edition. I heard a commercial just today on the radio talking about our public education, that you can take two online education courses. They can be AP courses, part of your regular curriculum. We have more online universities and colleges now. So I think we're at the front end of high technology and using technology to enhance our ability economically.

ROD DECKER, KUTV-2: Occasionally along the Wasatch Front we violate clean air standards, and we're on the cusp of getting into another fight with the EPA. Kennecott is asking for a new permit, and part of that permit is they'll continue to burn coal. Evidently they'll burn gas in the winter, which they aren't doing now. They may make things a little better overall but they aren't doing very much. You've got a permit, you've got leverage. Are you beating on them to try to help us out and help us in the long run with the EPA?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, again, beating on them probably is not the right term, Rod. But I think we are working with them in a cooperative manner, and the end result is that the air will be cleaner, even though they're expanding the pit. So again, outcomes are important. You have to have energy, natural gas is certainly a better way to go, and their expansion is going to be a lot more natural gas. They can't turn off the coal fired energy immediately. It's going to be a combination. But we will transition and gravitate to more natural gas, electrical power generation in the state than we have coal.

ROD DECKER, KUTV-2: Why can't they stop burning coal along the Wasatch front, where we're just, we already violate clean air standards?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, it's the old joke, well, why do you rob banks? Because that's where the money is. How do you get electrical generation? It comes from coal based fuels. And if we think somehow magically we're going to end up having a lot of energy production from renewables, it just isn't there. The technology is not there. The core base of our, our core load, our base load is going to come from coal, oil, or natural gas. Or nuclear power.

ROD DECKER, KUTV-2: They could switch to natural gas, they could do, I guess, continue to do what they're doing now, and that's buy off the grid in the winter. I guess it would cost them some money. The last I heard they were taking about a billion two out of there and sending it to England. I mean they've got some money that they could spend to help us out on air.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Again, I think that's the encouragement, is to go to cleaner burning fuels. We all want that. The demand from the public is we want cleaner, but we also want it affordable. Business is no different. They want to make sure they have a profitability, a bottom line. We're going to encourage Kennecott to, in fact, clean up as best they can, and I think they're trying to do that. So we'll work with them. I hope that over time they'll have 100 percent natural gas, and no coal.

TASHA COOK, KUER-90.1:Governor Gary Herbert, on the issue of immigration and Utah's guest worker program, when you took the oath of office, you made a pledge to uphold the U.S. Constitution. And the U.S. Constitution is the supreme law of the land, and any state law that's in conflict with federal is considered invalid. So my question to you is, given your oath of office, on what legal basis, and you object to a federal lawsuit against Utah on the issue of the guest worker program?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, again, I'm here to tell you that I think I understand the frustration that everybody feels with immigration because under the Constitution, the federal government is AWOL. They're not, in fact, following their own requirements under the Constitution of securing the borders and taking care of naturalization. Now think there's an argument that says, you know, if you're not going to do it the states are going to act. And we have done so. And you see other states also saying, you know what? If you're not going to do something, doing nothing is not an option. And so Utah, as imperfect as it may do, is saying, "We're going to do something." We have an enforcement, an enhanced enforcement, which has its own maybe potential Constitutional issues. We won't have time to go through those issues. You can argue pro and con on that. But that's part and parcel of what we're doing also with the guest permit part. And I'm here to say to you, I believe it is Constitutional, because we're talking about a state right under the Constitution of saying we can say who, in fact, has the right to work in our states. We're not saying it's amnesty, we're not saying, we're giving legal status, we're not taking the responsibility of the federal government. But again, we're saying if you don't take care of the problem, we want to know who's in our borders, and we have a state right to say who is allowed to work inside our borders. I believe it is Constitutional.

JEFF ROBINSON, KCPW-88.3: What do you think of the fact that your biggest ally on immigration seems to be the Democratic White House, and it's the Republicans in congress who are hammering you?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I guess I could make a joke about it. You know, even a broken clock is right twice the time, or twice during the day. So again, you know, this doesn't have to be, and I don't think it should be a partisan issue. You know, I think there's a problem in our country with immigration, and all we ever hear out of Washington, D.C. is, well, we're going to secure the borders, which they don't do, and yet they don't deal with the already big problem that's growing every day based on the economy, up or down, so it's a fluctuating number, but we've got people here that, because nobody is doing anything about it, are in our country illegally, and that becomes de facto amnesty. So it needs to be addressed. Again, Republicans and Democrats have got to work together. That's what we're trying to do here in Utah. We're trying to get people of all stripes together and say, we've got a difficult issue, let's find a solution. It doesn't have to be a partisan issue. It, in fact, ought to be a bipartisan issue.

ROD DECKER, KUTV-2: You had planned to go to Washington to talk to the administration about a waiver. Have your plans gone forward any further? Do you know when you're going and who you're talking to?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: We do have plans, and I talked with Attorney General Mark Shurtleff just yesterday. We'll probably want to tag team this. In fact he talked about wanting to go along with me when I go to Washington. It's not just the Department of Justice, it's also trying to get other governors to hold the feet to the fire of their own respective congressional delegation, see if we can't get a catalyst out there and get some leverage and get congress to act. Again, there's probably some things they could do to make it better, passing some legislation, to help make it better. Again, it's not an easy solution, and people are frustrated and bordering on, you know, real anger. And it's because nothing has happened. But I think we're going to have an opportunity We're already getting national attention about it. So whatever we're doing, as imperfect as it may be in Utah, is getting some attention, and people are saying, "Gosh, I like Utah's approach." It's kind of the carrot and the stick. It's a state right issue, governors like that. We have now Georgia that's following suit, even Arizona is now saying well we've got the enforcement maybe we ought to take a look at the other side of this coin. We're not getting near the criticism, we're not having an economic down side that Arizona had because we have had a more comprehensive approach. I think it's wise. It's comprehensive, and again, the design is to force the federal government to get into the game and quit passing the buck.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: Getting to another issue where you have a conflict with the legislature liquor control in the state. You proposed a budget that had no cuts to the DABC, lawmakers disagreed and cut them pretty significantly. As a result they were going to close a number of stores. You've come up with a way to keep those stores open temporarily. Is it just temporarily? Is this something you can work through with the legislature to make sure that there's not another cut in funding that ends up closing these stores?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I'm always the optimist. You know, I do believe that we'll work together and find solutions to the problems. And I believe that reasonable people will reason together and in most instances come up with the same solution. When we have all the same facts on the table and discuss it, we're going to come up with, I think, common results. That being said, you know, I was able to find some money in the construction budget, again part of the economic slowdown, allowed us to save money on construction projects, to plug a hole. Now, that will take us up until probably February of next year, and we'll be in session again, and the legislature will have an opportunity to revisit. As I've talked with many legislators, I think they didn't realize, or think that when they cut the $2.2 million out of the ABC budget that that would result in a closure of, you know, nine liquor stores that are profitable. And so I think there's, again, an opportunity to reset, to rethink, and I expect that that will be addressed in the upcoming legislative session.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: Is it time to rethink state control of liquor, though? There's talk now of privatizing liquor sales. Is it time to do that?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well whether it's time to do it or not, I expect we will, because we have a legislator that says, "I want to bring it to the forefront and cause the discussion to occur." So, you know, I welcome discussion, I think on all things. And this is one that we'll have. I think most people would say yeah, it's a good, valid discussion, and whether privatization solves problems or creates another set of problems, who's to know? I think in the state of Utah we think our system has worked well. You know, the public safety aspects of it are real, but, you know, having the discussion is probably timely. And so we'll see. I haven't seen the bill, I don't really know any of the details, but I expect that discussion will, in fact, happen in the upcoming legislative session.

JOHN FLOREZ, DESERET NEWS: Governor, we have turned down $100 million for the unemployed, we have 20,000 people unemployed. Does the state have any plans to do anything to help these people during, while they're seeking employment?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Absolutely. Our plan is we're going to grow the economy. John, as you know, the best thing we can do for anybody is to give them a job. And so we want to make sure that we create the fertile field, the environment for the business community, that that risk reward we call capitalism, that free market system, grows and expands. And guess what it's happening in Utah, better than most any other state. That's why Steve Forbes announced us as the number one state in America for business and careers. And so wherever you are on the economic spectrum, those, particularly at the lowest level, want a job. They don't want a handout, they want a hand up. Giving them a job and an opportunity to take care of themselves, their families, is what we ought to be about. And that's why my number one focus is on growing the economy, and creating jobs. Best thing I can do for those who are on the lower end of the economic spectrum.

MAX ROTH, FOX-13: Governor, we just have about 10 seconds left, really, but is the state prepared for flooding?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: The state is prepared for flooding. Again, this is, kind of reminds us of 1983. Our rivers are right now at between 97 percent capacity and 200 percent capacity. So we can see it coming. I would remind people, if you've got flood insurance, you have to have it in place by 30 days in advance of a flood. So it may have passed the point of no return. But we are ready, our local governments, just as importantly, I think, are ready. We're going to have some flooding but we have advance notice on this. No reason for us not to be prepared as best that we can.

KEN VERDOIA, KUED-7: Governor, we are out of time. I would like to congratulate my colleagues for the first 30 minutes of news and public affairs discussion this week, that did not feature the royal wedding. So on that note I will remind you that this and every edition of the Governor's Monthly News conference is available on line in transcript form. Visit us at www.kued.org to view the program on streaming or the transcript. Until next time, thanks for joining us.

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