February 24, 2011

"I think in many ways I already am the CEO of education. Of all the issues when you campaign for Governor, you know, the top three issues tend to be the economy, jobs, and education." -Governor Herbert

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GOVERNOR HERBERT: Good morning.

KEN VERDOIA, KUED-7: Governor, Last week you expressed some displeasure with the process employed by the legislature in building the state budget, targeting significant cuts across the board, and promising to use improved revenues to refill those cuts in accordance with the priorities they deem in the best interests of the state. Well, the state got some revenue forecasts this week. Do those forecasts temper your concern?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, certainly it’s going to be helpful to get the budget put together. I think it eliminates the need to have draconian cuts that we’ve seen proposed by the legislature, so I think it helps. You know, an extra $47 million is going to salve some of the wounds out there. Again, I think that’s indicative, by the way, that our economy is improving. And I think that gives confidence to the legislature and others as we put the budget together, that things are on the mend, that we’re improving, and that the economy is growing and jobs are being created.

That being said, I think the budgetary process is always difficult. It’s a little bit messy, it’s a little bit frustrating, and it’s the old adage, if you like sausage don’t go to the plant where they’re making the sausage. It sometimes gets a little bit messy. I think we can improve the budgetary process. The base line budget, I think, has some advantages, but it also has some disadvantages. And it sometimes is, I think the public is unaware of, why are we doing this like two budgets? So I’d like to work with the legislature and see if there’s a better way to do it. I think that we’ll eliminate some of the anxiety that it causes in the current process, and see if there’s a better way to do it. I think there probably is, but it’s a discussion we need to have at the legislature.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: Governor, lawmakers say that the budget numbers that came out earlier this week, the $47 million in additional revenue, just reinforced the need for a base budget process, that they were right to go ahead and make those cuts, that the money did not come in at the levels everyone had hoped for, and now it’s going to be a more straightforward process. They won't be able to restore all the cuts and take care of public education and take care of growth in Medicaid and some other needs. So they’re in a better position, and they say, “No, we don’t need to re-examine this process.”

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well I don’t know that they’re saying that, at least the conversations I’m having. I think everybody’s willing to sit down and talk about, is there a better process that we can create in putting the budget together? We’ve spent, since statehood, we’ve had a budget process that took 45 days, as opposed to putting together a base line budget in the first ten days. So I think we can talk about that, and there’s pros and cons. I’m not saying my way is the only way. And I don’t know where you’re getting the idea that $47 million is not a significant increase. We came together with $215 million, is what we projected to be the increased revenue over last year. That’s a pretty healthy increase in itself. And now we have another 25 percent increase in revenues, by $47 million, another $25 million in one-time. That’s a pretty healthy increase. So I’m not saying that there’s always going to be enough money for every demand out there, but my budget proposal allowed us to keep the same levels of funding we had last year and not diminish our services. Do more with the same. The cuts that are being proposed out there, I don’t believe are necessary. Now again, it’s a give-and-take process, and the legislature certainly is going to have the final say. They spend every dime of it. I understand that. I’ve given a good target to shoot from. And I believe as we work together over this final couple of weeks, we’re going to come pretty darn close to my budget.

ROD DECKER, KUTV-2: My rough arithmetic is you went up $215 million over last year’s spending, they went down about $312 million, that’s about a $530 million difference. If you take the money, the new money from December, which they didn’t count, and the new $47 million we just got, that’s almost half. It’s about $265 million, and we’re $530 million apart, you got 265, you’ve got 265 left to go. Now, when you go talk to Becky Lockhart, as we daily do, she, it doesn’t sound as if they’re in any mood to come up with $265 million more out of savings or out of accounting tricks. My guess is you’re going to have a hard time, that’s what I’m asking.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I’m not saying it’s easy, but I think it’s doable. And I think we’re going to end up coming together. There are going to be some modifications. I mean to think there’s not going to be any cuts is probably unrealistic. But it may be, in fact, increasing some areas here, and maybe cutting somewhere else. How much we will reduce the structural imbalance which I inherited $470 million, we’re down to $313. My proposal is to take it down to 213, another 100 million. Making sure that we’re on fiscally sound footing. That’s probably going to be a little of a sliding scale that we can work with. But I believe, as we work together, we’ll come together with probably 95 percent of what I’m proposing out there, and I think we can do it without these significant, draconian cuts that have been proposed, which has kind of been made mandatory because of the 10-day budget. Again, we still have a long ways to go, but I’m confident we’re going to arrive at the same destination together, and have probably some compromise along the way.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: Is there a need to increase the sales tax on food to accomplish all the budget needs? There's the proposal out there to increase the sales tax back on food, and delay the decrease in the general sales tax rate to offset that, to raise some one time money that will help plug that hole in the budget. Do you see that happening?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, who knows what's going to be proposed? So I can't predict the future very well. My crystal ball's probably as foggy as anybody's. But I do know that my budget proposal of $215 million allowed us to move ahead with no cuts in virtually any government agency, no cuts in higher education, and in fact, funded the growth in public education. So now we have an additional $47 million of ongoing money, plus another $25 million of one time money, and obviously from my perspective, we can do all this with minimal cuts anywhere.

JOHN FLOREZ: Well, would you cut the food, would you keep the food tax the way it is, given the fact that food's gone up?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: John, there are a number of different proposals on the food tax. Again, I've not proposed putting the sales tax back on food, but I do subscribe to the principle of broadening the base and lowering the rate. And to the extent that proposals will do that, it's probably a proposal that I could support. We have some proposals that will put the tax back on food, and not lower the rate. Well that would be a tax increase, which I do not support.

If, in fact, we have a proposal that put sales tax back on food but then lowered the rate on a broader base, that's something that's revenue neutral, and that actually would help those who are impoverished among us that we, not only do we not have them pay tax on food, we give them the food so they don't have to pay for the food, they don't have to pay for the tax, and their tax rate now is lowered on their hard goods. So those below the poverty line still have to buy shoes and Levi's and shirts and other things, so they might end up having a net gain under this proposal.

JOHN DALEY, KSL-5: Governor, on immigration, where are you currently? There are a number of proposals, as you know. We just heard about a comprehensive omnibus approach from Senator Curt Bramble just yesterday. Do you have, is there any one approach that you support, or that you think is the right way to go?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I've got those six guiding principles that you all know about that I think need to be adhered to on any comprehensive immigration reform bill. And although I haven't had a chance to really review Senator Bramble's bill, what I've heard about it, I think, incorporates my six principles and the Utah Compact principles, and I think that's certainly moving in the right direction. I'm encouraged by what I hear. It's come about I think with the input of many.

And I believe that all 104 legislators are weighed in on this, by the way. Some of it behind the scenes, some of it on floor debate. And I believe that at the end of the session we'll have a comprehensive immigration bill that we will all feel good about that's based on good principles and one that I will sign.

TASHA COOK, KUER: Governor, many of the immigration bills, they require a federal waiver, for which the state is unlikely to get. How wise is it for state government to be pushing this, when it could be rendered unconstitutional or invalid?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, it depends upon how the bill's going to be written, whether it's unconstitutional, or whether it will be become unconstitutional. I guess that's part of the issue. But clearly part of the frustration that we're all feeling as people, as a state, is the lack of inaction by the federal government. And I think this will not only help us do what we can do as a state, which is somewhat limited, but it will also help us put pressure on the federal government, our own congressional delegation and others, to say, "You've got to act, you've got to start doing something. Maybe give some waivers, let us try some pilot programs. Let's see if there's not a way to solve this issue."

And I think, as a Governor, I'm here to tell you, and I'll be leaving to go to the National Governors Association meetings here in a few days, that's going to be a topic of discussion amongst the governors. And the governors need to assert themselves in and say, "You know what? This is impacting our states, and we need you, federal government, to, in fact, act and do something. And we're going to start putting pressure on our own respective congressional delegations to see that something does happen."

ROD DECKER, KUTV-2: On immigration, you've enunciated principles, and you've talked about a Utah solution, but you haven't even got your hair messed. You've been above the fight. Are you going to stay that way, or in the end are you going to say "This is my bill and that isn't, my bill," or are you going to fight one way or the other on this issue?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I'm not the legislature, and we may use my influence for the later innings here, and coming down the last couple of weeks of the session. So we're working behind the scenes to help shape things as we see a need. The legislature, there's the counterbalance of what they think needs to be done, and the different personalities and points of view in the legislature. But we're certainly letting it be known where we think things need to be going. There's a lot of different legislators out there that have their own different points of view. If we can coalesce around a comprehensive immigration bill, or at least complimentary individual pieces of legislation, I'm going to be pleased. It's not a matter of not messing up my hair. It's making sure that we have the right outcome at the end of the day.

MAX ROTH, FOX-13: Governor, you have the veto power, and I wonder if you want legislators to know that, "I will not," in your words, "I will not sign a bill, I would veto a bill if it does this, on immigration." What is that? What's that line for you where you don't think the state should go?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, that's hard to say as far as an exact issue, because this is kind of a work in progress. And certainly I think we need to make sure that we adhere to a rule of law process. Enforcement has got to be a part of it. The business community has got to step up and be a part of it. We understand there's a federal component. And I think those are taking place. There's not really anything right now that I hear talked about that says, "Oh, gee, I need to veto that."

I think we're coalescing around good principles and coming up with a comprehensive immigration policy that I feel pretty good about the direction it's going. So I don't know that there's anything that I'm prepared to say, "If you do this I'm going to veto it." Because I think the principles involved here - -

JOHN FLOREZ: What is the right outcome?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: The right outcome is to make sure that we have a rule of law. We say that so many times it's cliché, but we cannot expect to have a free society where there's opportunity for everybody if we don't enforce the laws that we have on the books. If we don't like the laws, let's change them, but we're a nation that's founded on the rule of law. Our Constitution, the first written Constitution in the world's history. So that's got to be a part of it. We can't have a wink and a nod, and say, "Well, we'll enforce it all over here, but forget about the illegal immigration that's occurring." Now that's just the place to start.

We also recognize the humanity of the people we're involved with. These are human beings, and most of them are here trying to find a better way of life. It's kind of trying to live the American dream. But there's a right way and a wrong way to come into the country. And we need to understand that this is taking us- - It goes back before the days of Reagan, for heaven's sake, you know, 35 or 40 years back, that's got us kind of into this mess. And we can't solve the problem by Friday. It will take us a little bit of a time to get out of this, and I think we need to have some transition time, particularly for the business community, so we don't have any kind of a negative impact on the economy.

So I think at the end of the day we'll have an outcome where the business community is a part of it, our economy is healthy, we have opportunities for people to come into this country. We have a tall fence and a wide gate. The federal government's involved in doing their role, and I think we end up having a happy ever after result.

JEFF ROBINSON, KCPW: Governor, as a fellow Republican Governor, I'm curious what you think of the massive union protests that are going on in Wisconsin, and whether you've expressed any support to Governor Scott Walker over there.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: You know, I think I'll be seeing Governor Walker this weekend. I've not talked with him personally. I've talked with him before this took place, and he's had certainly an agenda that he campaigned upon. And of course the challenge in Wisconsin they're facing about a three and a half billion dollar deficit, and how do you close it? And it's shared sacrifice by everybody, and of course he believes that means unions too. And so I think he's doing the right thing. You know clearly has caused significant uproar in his state, and I feel for him in having to go through that. But you've got to come up with some tough medicine to solve the problem they're facing.

And it's not just Wisconsin. We see the same thing in Ohio, we see the same thing in Indiana, we have some problems in Michigan, California, Florida, New York. I mean we're so, we've been so fiscally irresponsible as a nation and as states that we have to take some tough medicine now, and I think Governor Walker is trying to say, "You know what, we can't continue down this road, it's unsustainable," and he's dealing out some tough medicine.

ROD DECKER, KUTV-2: I want to go back for a minute to the sales tax, just to make sure I understood correctly. If I understand, you might support a proposal to tax food, lower the general rate, and in the meantime sneak out $100 million or $150 million to avoid cuts in this budget. Is that what I'm understanding?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: No. That's not right. What I've said is I'm not proposing to put the sales tax back on food. That's not part of my agenda. We can do it without that. If, in fact, there's a bill that comes out of the legislature that says, "We're going to broaden the base and lower the rate," it's revenue neutral, that's a principle I can support. Again, I think that will actually help those below the poverty level. If, in fact, somehow we sneak a tax increase in there, that's something I'm not too happy about. Again, I don't know what the proposals are going to be. We're just speculating now because nothing has happened. But there's some proposals out there to put the sales tax back on food. If it's revenue neutral, I don't have a problem.

JOHN DALEY, KSL-5: Governor, back on immigration, in Arizona Senator Pierce's proposal that would basically say that children K through 12 of illegal immigrants would not be allowed to attend public schools. That's the latest measure from there. Is that something that you would feel comfortable with, or is that going too far?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, that may be going too far. I think, again, we don't want to punish the young people that in most instances have nothing to say with their status of being here in this country, whether they're legal or illegal. And so I'm a little concerned about something that would be that kind of draconian.

In state tuition, which is a different issue, and again, I think the challenge we face there is, with in state tuition, and we've had the debate, you know, here a few years ago and I thought it had been resolved. But it's obviously coming up now as part of this comprehensive, overall immigration debate. It does make it hard for people to understand, why is it that somebody who's from Nevada, Idaho, you know, Colorado, Wyoming, a border state that's a legal and is an American has to pay out of state tuition, and somebody who's not even an American, that's here in the country illegally, gets a break on the tuition. And it's hard for the public to understand how that works. And I think that's a legitimate issue of discussion.

JOSH LOFTIN, ASSOCIATED PRESS: Governor, more on immigration. Do you support anything with amnesty provisions, that provide a way for people here illegally to stay in the state through guest worker permits is the primary way?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I don't support amnesty, and the problem we have, I think, is the definition of what amnesty is. Amnesty, in my definition, is that you've broken the law and we just say "that's okay," and you kind of "get out of jail free card." I think if, in fact, there's an ability to pay penance, and to pay for your crime, and whether that's by fines, whether that's by public service, serving the military, peace corps, whether that's going back to the back of the line and getting in line for your citizenship, if that's what you desire to do, there could be a pathway to legalization. I don't like the idea of people cutting in front of the line, those who have been waiting. But again I don't think every answer is round them up and deport, you know, and anything else short of that is some kind of amnesty. I think we need to work on the definition and see what is acceptable, what is fair under the unique circumstance that people find themselves, and uphold the rule of law. But there's a lot of ways to pay your debt to society, and I think that as long as that's occurring, you shouldn't call it amnesty.

MAX ROTH, KUTV-2: Governor, do you want to be in, the CEO of the state's education system?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I'm not trying to do something more than what I'm already doing. I think in many ways I already am the CEO of education. Of all the issues when you campaign for Governor, you know, the top three issues tend to be the economy, jobs, and education. Not necessarily in that order. And so the governor really is the leader in many ways as far as education. And what I've tried to do is bring people together. I've done something that's been very difficult to do, and nobody's done it before bring people around the table from very different points of view, and say can we not, in fact, work together to find a Utah solution to Utah's unique problem? When it comes to educating a very fast growing student population, that's a big part of our budget. Sixty-five percent of our budget goes into education. And so in many ways I'm the one kind of directing traffic there and trying to bring people together. So whether I have it by statute or not, this governor, and other governors, have been the leader on education.

ROBERT GEHRKE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: But are you supportive of the proposal from Senator Reid to amend the Constitution to make you in charge, appoint the school board and manage the school board?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: You know, I'm not advocating for that, I'm really not. But there's a lot of different options out there and alternatives being discussed about. I think having the Governor more involved statutorily is probably one that's a lot more palatable than others. So I'll take a look at that, you know. I'm not opposed to that, but it's certainly not something I'm advocating for.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: Governor, liquor issues have often dominated legislative sessions. There's a pretty significant bill out there this session that hasn't gotten a lot of attention because of some of the other issues we've been discussing. The bill would free up some liquor licenses for restaurants which are now at their state quota, and also apparently give the state more control over the liquor commission itself. Do you support that legislation? Do you support increasing the number of restaurant licenses available, and do you think the state needs more control over what's happening at the liquor commission?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, as I understand there's at least a couple out there that I'm familiar with. Representative Froerer has got an idea of taking some of the tavern licenses and moving them over to full service and part service, limited service liquor licenses. And I think there's some wisdom in that. We have a demand that's shifted, it's not a matter of really having more licenses, it's taking it from taverns and putting them into restaurants. And frankly, I think that's probably a good thing. I would much rather have people, if we're concerned about people being impaired because of alcohol, taking your alcohol with food is probably a better process. And the market shift and the change that's occurring out there, less taverns, more restaurants, I think that's what his proposal is.

Senator Valentine has a more comprehensive legislation out there that I don't know all the details of. I think it's been just introduced in caucus, I've not seen a copy of the bill yet to see, but I think he has some of the similar kinds of things in his bill. I think as we adjust to the marketplace, I think that's good, and I think we've done some overhaul the last couple of years, it seems to be working. I think this is an ability to tweak it, to reflect more the market demands out there, and so overall, at least on principle, I support what's taking place.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: What about more control over the liquor commission? Apparently Senator Valentine's bill would increase control, giving authority to appoint a chairman, for example, to someone other than the commissioners.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, we already have pretty significant control over it now, so I don't know how much more we can get. But if it's a matter of picking the chairman as opposed to let them pick it amongst themselves, you know, I don't know that's a big issue for me. But I'd have to analyze it and see what the pros and cons are.

JOHN DALEY, KSL-5: Back on immigration, Governor, what would you like for lawmakers and for Utahns to understand about what's your message to them?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: We're going to have a Utah law, and it's going to be for a Utah problem, and we'll come up with a Utah solution. It's not going to be an Arizona law, it's not going to be another state's law, it's going to be our law. And it ought to be addressed for our unique circumstances. We're not a border state, we have a different challenge and different issues than other states do. And again, I think that we'll adhere to good principles in doing it, and it will be something that we will have at the end of this session that we'll feel good about passing and I'll feel good about signing. And just as importantly, five years from now, we'll look back at that piece of legislation and we'll still feel good about it. We'll say that that was a good piece of legislation that put us on the right path for all Utahns, and for America. And I believe that's what's going to take place and that's what I'm going to make sure takes place.

MAX ROTH, FOX-13: Governor, yesterday a number of us were sitting outside of a caucus where they were discussing Senator Bramble's immigration proposal, a closed caucus. When a majority is that large in a state legislative body, is that appropriate?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I think there are times when it's appropriate to have closed caucuses. I think those should be rare. I think, you know, open and transparency is an important part of our Democratic republic. But clearly, as they have to have vettings of issues that are somewhat controversial, that people somehow would be intimidated because of being too open, particularly with the press, who's willing to pounce on every word and maybe not always get the context correct--none of you here would do that, I know that--but there is probably a need to have some ability to have a closed caucus and be very open and frank about issues. So I think it serves its purpose.

And again, I can tell you, as we look at the outcomes, the end result, Utah is the best managed state in America, by other people's opinion. We're the fiscally fittest state in America by other people's opinions. We are the best place for business and careers by other people's opinions, outside work. Best quality of life in America, by other people's opinion, outside of our borders. So the outcomes we get are what we ought to focus on. And the process that we use to get there have proven to be very viable, and give us good government in the state of Utah. Again, as we look at what's happening across this country, I can just tell you, aren't you glad you're a Utahn?

KEN VERDOIA, KUED-7: Governor, we have about 30 seconds left. In this budget discussion, who are you concerned, what areas of the budget are you concerned might get left behind? As we serve certain priorities, are you concerned these priorities will not be served?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I think at the end of the day we're going to serve everybody. I think be we're going to fund education, I think we're going to give money to- -

KEN VERDOIA, KUED-7: - -Public and higher?- -

GOVERNOR HERBERT: - -My budget proposal has it to both public and no cuts to higher, maintain it, which is what they want to do and they believe they can do, absorb some growth there. Our health and human service needs are going to be funded, and we're going to have a significant reduction of the structural deficit. So the three categories, health and human services, education, and structural deficit, fiscal soundness, I think can all be accomplished in this budgetary cycle.

KEN VERDOIA, KUED-7: Governor, we're out of time but thank you for your time today and thank you for joining us for the Governor's Monthly News Conference. Good evening.

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