January 27, 2011

"We’re not going to sit back idly as the federal government continues to encroach into the state areas of responsibility."
-Governor Herbert

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Good Morning.

KEN VERDOIA, KUED-7: Thanks for joining us. In the themes that were sounded in your State of the State address this week, four very clear themes laid out, one subject that was not addressed is one that I’d like to start our news conference with today. As the press usually does, we’ll focus on what you did not address, which would be the structural imbalance as perceived by the governor and the state legislature in the budget. State legislators are saying some three hundred million dollars or more needs to be addressed in a structural shortfall. You address it in some respects. What’s the difference between your view and the legislative view?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, the structural imbalance is certainly an important part of the budget and we need to get it to zero. When I took over as governor, the structural imbalance was four hundred and seventy million dollars. I’ve reduced it to three hundred and thirteen and we need to get it to zero. It’s a matter of how long will it take to get there. I think it ought to be done in kind of an installment basis, particularly in light of the fact that we are seeing growth in the economy. So we don’t need to make quite the draconian, I think, step to get to zero in one year when we can probably take in two years and not disrupt government services that are being maintained and the increased pressures of a fast growing state that we have increasing case loads and inflationary costs. I think we can do over a couple of years. I’ve had an opportunity to look at the budget and the numbers for a number of months and the legislature is just getting started. So we’ll work with them on this process and I think we’ll come up to find acceptable numbers and I’m anticipating that over the next forty-five days that we’ll come with resolution to the structural deficit problem.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: Will they, do you believe they’ll go along with the change in the collection pattern that gives a one-time windfall of a hundred million buck or so? Can you, they’re saying they don’t want to do it. Can you talk them into it?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well I hope so. I think it’s good tax policy. It seems that we’re only one of two states in America that really don’t have quarterly estimates on our state income tax. The federal government requires it. Most of us agree that we ought to pay as you go and not use the tax payers as some kind of a bank. And so it’s not a tax increase if you owe a dollar, you’ll pay a dollar. We’re just saying that you ought to pay it at twenty-five cents at a time throughout the year. So, I think that that’s a good tax policy. It just happens that there is a one-time infusion of money, which helps us transition. If we’re going to do it and we ought to do it, now would be an ideal time to do it and so I think that they’re going to listen. I think there are a lot of people in the legislature that agree with me on that.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: Governor, in your State of the State speech, you talked about the need to take a serious look at developing nuclear power in Utah. What do you envision the state's role in that development to be? Is there funding involved, is there planning involved? What’s next?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I don’t know all the answers to the questions because we haven’t had the questions really and discussion and debate and we need to. Over thirty states are already engaged in nuclear power production in some form or fashion. And if we’re serious about having affordable energy, and cleaner air and cleaner energy production, nuclear power has got to be something that we discuss. Now whether Utah has a role to play or not, I’m not certain. We have the challenge of do we have the water that’s necessary for a nuclear power plant, are we willing to have power plant here that we produce electricity from and export it to someplace else as opposed to using it for ourselves and yet we are left with the residue? So those discussions ought to have, ought to take place here in Utah and see what our role is, if any, in nuclear power in the future and I think it’s just time that we join the debate.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: How does this State play a role in that though, or do you see this purely as a private sector discussion?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I don’t think the state is going proposing a nuclear power plant and we’re not going to construct one and run one but we certainly have a role to play when it comes to regulation. And you’ve got to meet certain standards in order to get your permits and there’s like a twenty step process that you have to go through with us and the federal government on nuclear power plants. So we have a role to play and we’ll play that role well. But we ought not to shy away from the discussion. It’s like we’re entering the game a little bit late here. If you looked at a map of the United States, you’ll find a lot of power plants on the east coast. You’ll see a number of power plants on the west coast. You kind of get this doughnut-hole in the middle of the intermountain west. Probably for a variety of reasons but it’s just time for us to have the discussion and we ought not be afraid of that.

DAN BAMMES, KUER: Governor, Utah has been pretty energetic in its efforts to resist the disposal of high level radioactive waste in the west and Utah. If we have nuclear power here, do we need prepared to dispose of high level radioactive waste here?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I think the reason that we are probably so adamant in opposition to higher levels of nuclear waste rather than the low level class-A waste that we take now, is because it is produced someplace else and then brought and stored in Utah. That seems to be something that seems to be unacceptable. It just doesn’t fit right that they’re making it and we’re storing it. And again, if we’re going to have a nuclear power plant, you know, I think that most us believe if it’s produced there, it ought to stay there. And so the question is going to be if we produce nuclear power in Utah, is that power going to used by Utahns? If it is, it’s probably more acceptable to keep the spent rods, the higher levels of nuclear waste here in Utah but if we’re just going to export the electrical power to some other states, it’s probably not as acceptable to keep the waste here.

JEFF ROBINSON, KCPW: Governor, you talked public education quite a bit in your State of the State address. There are two very interesting purposed constitutional amendments the legislature is debating right now. One would make the State Board of Education accountable to the legislature. The other one would do away with the State Board of education and put you, the governor, in charge of public schools. What do you think of drastically changing the governance model of public education in Utah like this?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: A couple of new ideas just coming forward. Again, I’m not too excited about having the legislature becoming the school board. I think that’s just a super school board of a hundred and four personalities may be just a little bit unwieldy, a little bit hard to probably manage. I’m certainly not looking at taking over the job myself. I know there’s some issues out there and people want to have somebody keep an eye on the school board and the office of education. I think it’s going to be an interesting discussion and I’m going to be following that just like anybody else out there. I think how we have it right now is actually working pretty well from the stand point of management and so if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. There may be some ways that we can fine tune it.

REPORTER: Governor, with in that debate. Oh, I’m sorry John.

JOHN FLOREZ: Who is in charge of the education, public education?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, it’s a combination of a number of entities. The State School Board, which certainly controls the over-all state agenda. We have local school boards, which I think ought to have a higher and more important and recognized role as local control, because I think they know their backyards better than anybody. The legislature certainly controls the purse strings. And the governor kind of directs policy in many ways on the executive branch side. So it’s a combination it’s a team effort. It’s worked well for I think us in Utah with our unique circumstances.

JOHN FLOREZ: Where does the buck stop?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, the buck stops with all of us. I mean, there’s not any body that it’s your responsibility John, and not mine. It’s all of us working together. It’s a collaborative effort. Unfortunately, as we’ve seen over time, we’ve got some polarization that’s taken place here and we’re not talking to each other. That’s one of the reasons why I created the governors education excellence commission. I’ve got thirty-two different people representing many different stake holders and entities around the table for the first time working together. And we’re coming up with not only just consensus but unanimity on the vision for the state of Utah and principles that I, again, announced in the State of the State. I think that’s a step in the right direction. The governor needs to lead out. We’re going to have different points of view. The legislature has one. People involved with education have difference points of view. The, our business community saying look, we’re the end user. We’re going to be hiring the labor force and we want to make sure that they are prepared to be hired.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: You, you seem more friendly than your predecessors toward the federal government, particularly on environmental matters. You hired Ted Wilson as a bridge between you and the Greens, you hosted Secretary Salazar, you spoke in a friendly way toward the federal government until last night. Last night, you seemed to take on the federal government. In fact it was maybe the strongest part of your speech. Have you changed your attitude toward the federal government, particularly toward Secretary Salazar and his policies with respect to Utah?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I respectfully disagree in some ways in that if you go back to my first inaugural address, I talked about state right issues and the importance of what we call federalism, the balance between the states and the centralized federal government. And it gets out of whack now and again. You know, the pendulum one way and then back the other. It’s swung too far towards Washington D.C. in my opinion and so we need to, in fact, stand up as a state and fight back on those things that we think that there’s encroachment. And this is not just a Republican thing. There are many Democrat governors that have the same point of view. Now let me finish. And that is when it comes to Secretary of Interior Ken Salazar, we’ve done some great things. I’ve reached out in a significant way, and say that we can continue to fight like we’ve done for the last decade or we can work together and find a balanced approach. Hence, the balance resource council chaired by Ted Wilson. And we’ve done more on public lands and those issues in the last year than we’ve done in a decade because of that. I was concerned in that effort as we reached forward that we kind of got knifed in the back here just a little bit with a new public land policy that we didn’t even have a chance to comment on. That’s bad process. And at least a bad policy. We need to be open and transparent. I’m going to continue to reach out. I’m going to continue to try to work together on a balanced approach and I expect that Secretary Salazar will in fact embrace that.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: Can he?

MAX ROTH, FOX13: One suggestion in the state legislature from Representative Carl Wimmer is that, uh, Utah declare null and void any federal, new federal designation of wild lands and further more what he wants to do is direct local sheriffs to enforce that even against federal rangers, agents, who might want to enforce the federal will. What do think about that idea?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I understand the passion and I understand the frustration that’s developed here because of this over reaching hand of the federal government. And in Utah is one of those public land states that feels that encroachment and kind of a deaf ear and probably, uh, an unsympathetic heart. It’s easy to say these are public lands and we all own them and I agree with that. But still the impact we have on states that have all the public lands located in our borders. Again you look at the map. On the east coast you can go from the east coast to Colorado and just have a few percent of public land. All of the sudden you get to Utah and we have over seventy percent public land in our state. It has a dramatic impact on our ability to develop commerce to have tax laws to fund education and so there ought to be at least some empathy for that issue and let’s have a dialogue and discussion. That’s what, uh, Carl Wimmer’s talking about. And if you’re not going to talk to us about it, we’ll put up some barriers to fight you on it. I don’t think that’s the right way to go about it but it’s certainly a way. And it’s born out of frustration because of the lack of the federal government to understand some of our local state concerns.

ROD DECKER, KUTV: You talk for dialogue but is there any chance that, uh, secretary Salazar is going to talk you into wild lands? Oh, yes a couple of million more acres of wild lands exactly what Utah needs?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, certainly I’m willing to sit and listen to the argument. Again, part of the inventory that we’ve done is talked about this is how much uh, wilderness designation there should be out there. But how many times are we going to inventory? When is enough enough? I mean, we need to make some decisions and move on and part of the process we’ve come up with, which we think is reasonable and rational is county by county doing a legislative approach. You know there’s three arrows in the quiver on all this stuff. We can negotiate, we can legislate, and then we’ll litigate. And all three arrows are alive and well in the quiver. We worked well with Washington County in developing a public lands bill in defining wilderness. We’re doing it in San Juan County. We’re doing it in Beaver and Iron and Piute Counties. This is something that’s come out of the blue and it’s kind of tipped the apple cart upside down. So I’m looking forward to talking to Secretary Salazar. I plan to meet with him this next month back in Washington D.C. I’ve had on-going conversations with Bob Abby. I think Bob understands the issue and the concern and probably somewhat sympathetic. He’s kind of the messenger on this whole issue. But we’ll get through it. I’m not, I’m confident that we won’t have some resolutions issue. But we’re not going to sit back and not make our concerns known and that’s what I did in the State of the State. We’re not going to sit back idly as the federal government continues to encroach into the state areas of responsibility.

ROBERT GEHRKE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: Governor, on immigration, one of your principles, guiding principles, was that it had to be funded. Does that include any expenses that might be incurred by local governments in implementing a state policy and if it’s not funded, what’s your next step?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, specifically, it has to do with local governance as we look at enforcement and the states certainly can’t do it alone. If we have enhanced enforcement, which is what is being talked about at least in some corners, there is a cost associated with that. We’re going to empower local governments to do more out there as far as enforcement. We need to understand that there’s a fiscal note. Arizona didn’t take that into account and they’ve got some concerns and problems because of it. So as one of my six guiding principles, I put out there, which I think are relevant in this discussion and debate, I think they are good guiding principles for the legislature to look at. One of them is look at the fiscal note. What is the cost of what you’re going to change going to be to the tax payers? And make sure you account for that rather than say to the local governance “well, just absorb it, it’s just another unfunded mandate.”

ROBERT GEHRKE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: If a bill comes to your desk and it doesn’t, and you don’t feel accounts for that, are you going to veto that bill?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: If there’s a bill that’s not acceptable, I’ll veto it. Again, in all the component parts there, I expect that we will work together. I’m expecting a bill that will come out that I will sign. I’m not expecting one that’s going to be vetoed. But it’s going to be a work in progress these next forty-five days. I think we’ll have different ideas, maybe some we haven’t even heard of. I believe there’s movement already taking place in the legislature to come together and find kind of a common ground approach here that has enforcement and yet understands the challenge that we have in the labor force with people who are already here, are trying to be here and are part of our labor force and contributing uh, to our economy. So Again, I think bills will come together, there might be complimentary bills there might be an omnibus bill, who knows? It’s still early in the process. But I think that once we’re through the session, a bill will come to my desk that I will find acceptable that I will sign.

ROBERT GEHRKE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: What role are you playing in helping shape that bill?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Just kind of facilitator. I have a point of view and an opinion that we’re working with on. I’ve given the six guiding principles that I’ve told you about already, that I think are really good. They are available on our web page if you want to look them up.

JOHN FLOREZ: What, what is your opinion about the hundred thousand in undocumented that are here? What would you see as solution to the dilemma here?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I think, it’s a complicated issue, John. It’s, there’s not easy solutions, not as black and white as people would like to make it. And I think that’s going to be part of the discussion. And I don’t want to presuppose what issues and ideas are come up. I think we need to understand we have to respect the rule of law. I mean, that’s the first thing, that’s the foundation of our country and freedom’s based on the rule of law for all of us. And you can’t say it’s important to have the rule of law over here and then turn a blind eye in another area. So rule of law has got to be at the top of it. I recognize that we can’t have a complete immigration reform without the federal government being a part of it. The puzzle will be incomplete without the federal government's involvement. But states can’t sit back and continue to wait and delay because of the absence of the federal government. We need to in fact, step up, do what we can do and force the federal government to do what they should be doing. Securing the borders. We need to have a taller fence. We need to have a wider gate. And so there’s a lot of factors that go into this. Business has a role to play, the fiscal note I’ve talked about. We need to respect the humanity of the people that we are dealing with. These are human beings and this ought to have nothing to with race or ethnicity. It only has to do with condition and again, I think we can find a common sense approach on this thing and resolve it as we are able to in Utah. At least make step forward. And I would say to this too: The Utah public wants us to do something. They are frustrated about this issue on all sides. The federal government is not doing what they should be doing. I mean this has come up back in the days of Reagan for heaven’s sake. You know, three decades ago. And so the public is saying to Utah, they’re not doing it at the federal level, you do what you can at the state level. And they, I don’t know that they much care if it’s a conservative or liberal approach. They want something done.

MAX ROTH, FOX13: Governor, in polls the public has said in two separate polls recently overwhelmingly that education is their top priority. Going back to that, the co-chair of the education appropriations sub-committee Senator Chris Butters, is focusing on cultural issues very strongly and focusing specifically on the Alpine school district where you live and your children went to school and throwing around terms like socialism, relativism, atheism, in relation to how they’re forming their curriculum. I wonder what you think about how that debate is going on.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I don’t know that I’m for any of those: atheism, socialism, communism.

MAX ROTH, FOX13: Do you think, though, that the school board is buying into those ideas because that’s what they’re saying in this debate.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I don’t think that they are. Again, others do. Let’s not shy away from the discussion. Let’s have somebody prove their point and advocate what their point of view is and let’s have somebody else say, well you’re wrong and here’s why you’re wrong. Again, I hear people talk about the fact that we’re trying to participate with other states with what we call the common core standards. And that’s a state driven thing, it’s not a Washington D.C. federal government driven thing. It’s a matter of we as states are recognizing that we probably are not doing as well and performing as well in comparison to other countries in the world. So let’s raise the bar. It’s a voluntary program and states direct the curriculum and the text books and what’s being taught. It’s really, it should be called, in our case, the Utah Common Core Standards. But there’s some misunderstanding out there. Again, it’s a lack of probably know what is taking place and we suppose it’s something that’s wrong. I think that in many instances that’s what’s taking place here. We need to sit down and say “Tell me what your concern is and let me respond. See if I can convince you that we’re doing ok.” And I would suggest that Senator Butters and the Alpine School District needs to sit down and have some discussion.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: Governor, let’s go back to state sovereignty for a moment. With your tough talk in last nights State of the State speech, are you encouraging law makers to come forward with more message bills of their own sending a similar statement back to Washington? On one hand it sounds like you’re continuing the same course that you set all along which is to continue a dialogue with the federal government, express frustration when needed but don’t stop that. And yet, if the state just piles on more and more message bills, doesn’t that hurt your ability to have that dialogue with Washington?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, it hasn’t yet. So, whatever message bills we’ve done in the past has not hurt my dialogue with them now and like I’ve mentioned already, we have done more with the Secretary of the Interior and with the BLM in the last year on public land issues, working to bring industry and environmental communities together. I would look at the Bill Barrett Corporation and Nine Mile Canyon at the West Havaputz as an example of truly win – win situations which we helped be a part of. We’re doing pilot programs now on RS 2477 roads in Iron County, again with co-operation and collaboration with all people, all stake holders: environmental community, local governments, the Department of Interior, the BLM, so I think that where I’m going with the dialogue, the principles are what we ought to talk about. We get kind of caught up in the rhetoric and the emotionalism on specific issues, but the principle is one of federalism. One of the geniuses of the constitution is the check and balances that take place in our constitution. The separation of powers. But one of the separation in the balancing acts is the states are equal partners with the centralized federal government. And we ought to make sure that we understand that balance. I find it very interesting that when we have enumerated powers in the constitution for the federal government, which are limited and few, the broader powers are given to the states. And yet the total combined budgets of all fifty states is about 1.6 trillion dollars. That’s almost the size of the deficit that the federal government will spend this next year. They’re spending two and maybe three times more money in Washington D.C. than we’re spending in the states. We seem to be just a little bit out of whack there to me. So we ought to be pushing back. And again this is not just a republican speaking, there are many democrats that feel the over reach of the federal government is beyond acceptable. And we ought to start pushing back or else that area will create a vacuum that they will take over.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: Do you want to see the legislature to come up with more of their own pushback this session, yes or no?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: It depends on what the push back is. There are some areas that we need to push back. Medicaid reform, for example is one of them. We’re already doing some things because of the nationalized health care, which is not working, is going to raise the cost for our own budgets. Medicaid right now, is the fasting, the fastest rising cost of my budget. It’s started out here at 9% about fifteen years ago. It’s now to 18% and by 2020 could reach 30%. We’re going to have an increase of 50% because of the changing requirements mandated to the states by the nationalized healthcare, the affordable health care act. A 50% increase that, where’s the money going to come from? You know, we’ve got to understand that, so this has got to be a partnership. It’s not a dictatorship and that’s what we feel like as states, that we’re being dictated to, too much. In the health care debate, the issue of our time, the water cooler topic of health care. You know that the states and the governors have never been invited to the table? Now, I find that incredible. And it’s because we’ve been sitting back and taking it. We got to assert ourselves and say: You know, we are partners. We aren’t a colony. We’re states. We’re co-equal with you in the federal government. We ought to be working together.

ROBERT GEHRKE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: Governor, there are a couple of concealed weapons bills that are being purposed this session. One would eliminate the need to have a concealed weapons permit. It would be constitutional carry. Representative Wimmer’s is carrying that. Do have an opinion on whether or not that should be, uh, whether people should have to have concealed weapons permits or should people just be allowed to conceal firearms?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I haven’t had a chance to talk to Representative Wimmer about that. I’m kind of curious about that because I do support having to have a permit for a concealed weapon. I think those are necessary and important and it’s worked very well. I don’t really see the big problems. We end up having people make it into a bigger issue than it really is in reality. I think that some of the issues that we have with some of our universities , for example. I think the universities need to have a better dialogue and understand the role of the legislature. And I think the legislature needs to have a good dialogue with the universities and understand the role of the university. And where we are sometimes at cross purposes, maybe we can come together. Again, I think there’s a lack of discussion and understanding. But I support the concealed weapon permit as it’s currently stands.

MAX ROTH, FOX13: Governor, we’re almost out of time but I wonder if you’ve been briefed on what’s happening at Dougway and what can you tell us.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I have been. I’ve in fact had some discussion even this morning about it. I think everything is ok. I don’t think there is any public safety hazard out there. Agent was not accounted for out there. A small bottle of agent. That’s what prompted the lock down and they’ve ended up finding it . They’ve discovered it. No harm, no foul. So, again, everything’s fine there.

KEN VERDOIA, KUED: Governor, you’ve been with our new look. One thing that does not change in this new conference is the amount of time that we have and we have expended it at this point. Thank you for your time today.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Thank you.

KEN VERDOIA, KUED: A reminder that a transcript and repeat presentations of this news conference is available on line at kued.org. Hope you can join us then and then again next month when we join you for the Governor's Monthly News Conference. Good evening.

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