October 23, 2009

"...the good news is the H1N1 doesn't appear to be quite as bad as we originally thought, but still we need to be very cautious because people die from the flu, and they're dying from H1N1."
-Governor Herbert

DAM BAMMES, KUER FM90: Governor, thanks for joining us. Yesterday your office released some numbers evaluating the four day work week as a money after saving measure. It looks as though you're saving some money in overtime, not so much in energy, as you might have thought. Are you ready at this point, now, to make a decision on the future of the four day week?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Not quite yet. We are doing some additional fact checking. Really, the data needs to be in and complete. And the one part of the formula that has not been explored really is the public's opinion. And so we have authorized a Dan Jones poll to ascertain what the public's opinion is, how has it worked for them? Has the service been improved? Do they like the fact that we're closed on Fridays? And so that will be at least a missing part of the puzzle that we're going to get done here in the next couple of weeks. That, then, I think, will allow us to have information to move forward. We're also, though, doing some survey work with our local government people. I have received a number of calls from local government officials expressing at least some concern about the four day work week. Some that actually are involved in four day work weeks themselves. And so I'm curious to find out what the cities and the counties, those that have to interface with state government, feel about the Friday closing.

RICHARD PIATT, KSL-TV 5: But there is evidence that there is savings with regards to employee overtime.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Yes.

RICHARD PIATT, KSL-TV 5: Is that enough to continue forward, do you think?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, it's certainly a factor. Again, we need to weigh everything. Savings is really the thing that was driving it in the beginning. The energy savings are not what we thought, but we are finding savings with overtime, less travel, we're finding people are not travelling on the road as much, and so there's some savings there. So clearly savings are an important part of this, and you know, we're in a situation where four or five million dollars' in savings is certainly worth thinking about. At the end of the day, though, it's got to be service to the taxpayer and the public. And so all those things need to be weighed against each other to decide, what shall we do going forward? And again, there's only three options continue, go back to the five eight work week, or some kind of compromise.

JENNIFER DOBNER, ASSOCIATED PRESS: What type of concerns are you talking about that you're hearing from the public?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, a lot of people want to do work on Friday. You know, they're working on Friday, and they sometimes wonder why we're not working on Friday. And we have governments, local governments need to interface with some of the our departments, and they call up and nobody answers. And so they get frustrated. It only takes one or two of those calls, they'll get frustrated. Some of it's a learning curve, just understanding, okay, we're working four tens, as opposed to five eights, and I expect that some of that frustration will subside over time. But I need to find out, you know, what are the concerns? What are the issues for local government, if they're real or imagined? And then weigh that into my ultimate decision of whether we continue or not.

LISA RILEY ROCHE, DESERET NEWS: Governor, how important will the legislature's input be in making that decision? As you know, your predecessor did that by executive order, without input from lawmakers. There was concern at the time, and lawmakers have certainly taken an interest since. If they don't want it, and you do, or vice versa?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I won't do it in a vacuum. You know, I think everybody has a right to give their input. Ultimately the buck stops with me, I'm going to have to make the decision, and I certainly would want and welcome input from the legislature. I've already had, many of them have talked to me about their own opinion. But that, opinion, facts, data, will all be put together, and I'll make a decision, here, before the end of the year.

ROBERT GEHRKE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: You're meeting right now with your department heads to put together your budget for 2010. When they come to meet with you, how much are you asking them to propose in cuts at this point?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, we've talked in terms of one, three, five, and even up to seven. So those scenarios are being looked at. We're also looking at ways to find efficiencies just in the delivery of the system. It may not have any cost savings, but still we can do more with the same, and our watch word is "do more with less." So it's been an interesting discussion this last week, and will continue for the next couple of weeks, as we meet individually with each department and division head. This is going to take a scalpeled approach. This is not a meat cleaver. We're going to have to have some cuts, I believe, to make things balance, but we're going to have to be very precise in where we cut to make sure that we're cutting those in the right areas.

RICHARD PIATT, KSL-TV 5: Governor, as you know, there reaches a point where cuts do more harm than good. At what point will you be willing to start talking about some kind of tax increase?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: That may be true, Richard, but I'm not sure we're at that point yet. Again, we're still at levels that are, the peak that we had three years ago. So you know, our revenues, although down a billion, are still what we had, here, in 2006 2007 area. So I think we have the resources, we we have a rainy day fund that we're going to be able to, I think, utilize. I think back filling with rainy day funds and some additional cuts will allow us to get through the critical time right now. It's You know, for me, people say, why aren't you using the rainy day fund? Why didn't you use it last year, it was certainly raining? And I don't disagree that it's raining. The question's, how long is the storm going to last? And we need to anticipate, not only this upcoming budget cycle, but it's a little uncertain how quick the recovery will happen. Most economists are predicting, you know, we're kind of right at the bottom, we're turning the corner, maybe six, nine months. But we need to anticipate that 2011 could be a tough legislative session, budgetarily, too, and at least have some kind of anticipation of some bumps in the road. That being said, I really am reluctant to promote any new tax increases. And the reason for that is, and I think most people can sense that the economy is starting to lug along. It's trying to fight back. And it's just like any kind of an engine, you know, where you try to get the right mixture of gasoline and oxygen to get it to hum along, and we see this little flicker of flame out there. The worst thing we could do would be to have some kind of wet blanket of tax increase that would snuff out that flame just as it's trying to get some rhythm and get going again. So again, I will resist tax increases.

CHRIS VANOCUR, ABC-4: Governor, coming up you've got your annual, I guess it would be your first, Governor's gala, which is a big fund raiser for your PAC. As you're aware, there's been some grumbling among those invited about how much it costs with, I think, top sponsorship $50,000 tables, going from $5,000. In retrospect, do you think maybe you asked for too much, especially in these tough economic times?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, there's always room to reconsider, and as we go forward, and make sure that we're doing the right thing in the right way. I have been actually pleasantly surprised at those who have been willing to step up and to help out. There's no question that I'm actually overwhelmed. I have a unique circumstance and situation that other Governors haven't had to face, and that probably fuels some of what we're doing and how we're doing it. But again, I think the revenues being raised here will be utilized in a lot of different areas that I think will be beneficial to the state. There's things that I need to do, and that ought not to be paid by taxpayers' money. So I think we're doing it appropriately, it's an annual event, it's a tradition, and I think it's a tradition that's worthwhile to keep and continue. And I think that people will be really impressed with what we did on the Governor's gala. My wife's in charge of the entertainment, so I know it's going to be good. And it's all Utah talent. We're not bringing anybody in, it is all Utah talent, it's going to be a wonderful evening.

ROBERT GEHRKE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: Now you've opposed campaign limits in the past because you say the little guy won't be able to compete. But how can a little guy compete against a Governor who's raising $500,000 right out of the gate?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, it depends on your perspective, I guess, Robert, as far as how the little guy competes. I am a little guy, and you know, I need to be able to have those people who believe in me to support me in extraordinary ways. There's the rich guy out there that can come and self fund. I can be challenged, and maybe will be, by people out there that just, they don't have to worry about raising money, or donations from anybody. They just write out a check. There's power of incumbency that people have out there, and the little guy can't challenge the powerful incumbent if they have limitations on fund raising.

ROBERT GEHRKE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: But this is the power of incumbency, isn't it? I mean you're the incumbent.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Again, I grant you that. But I'm not wanting to limit anybody else's ability to raise money, either. The best thing I could do for my own self preservation is to limit the challenger's ability to raise money. And I'm not willing to do that. They can self fund. It's a Constitutional right. It's free speech. And so I'm not prepared to go down that pathway. And I know some would like to get down the pathway of publicly funded elections. I don't think the taxpayers should be on the hook to fund elections. Again, I think that's more incumbent protection. So I'm not saying my way's perfect, but I think it's better than the alternative.

RICHARD PIATT, KSL-5: You've been addressing this a lot lately, but And you stated your position rather clearly. But can you at least see the point of view of some people who are concerned that a large donation from a contributor or group of contributors can be seen by some in the public as buying a candidate?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I can see that argument. But I would submit to you that whether I got $50,000 or $10,000 or $5,000, you could have the same argument. You know, are you buying your politician? Are you buying influence, access? Those are the typical arguments. But why is $50,000 too much and $25,000 not? Or five? Or pick a number. And so either you believe your politicians are honest or not, and I think that you ought to address that based on their conduct. Politics is about getting your message out. It costs money in today's society to get your message out. And so I've got to raise a significant amount of money to get the message out, as does anybody. And I'm trying to make sure that we have as level a playing field for everybody to participate as we can. We can look at the federal election process, and we find out that more and more it is only the wealthy that can compete. We have political parties any more, now, that are not weighing who they want to be their champion based on their qualifications and capability, but can they self fund? It's easy for us to get the message out if he can write the check for it, we don't have to go out and raise the money. So that's where I think it's, where I'm at. That doesn't mean that we can't modify as we go forward. I've got some unique circumstances, again, with election 2010 that may cause me to reconsider down the road. But you know, I've got to do what I think's appropriate now.

MAX ROTH, FOX NEWS 13: We have a strange debate going on in the state, and in the nation at large, about global warming. And it's tough to get a handle on. And the reason I'm asking the question today is because there was a debate on the hill yesterday. And our top scientists are telling us there's a consensus, 97.4 percent of climate scientists say it's happening, and humans are at least in part causing it. And yet our top politicians are telling us there's a raging debate. What do we do with that?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I think everybody has to evaluate the information they have on their own. You know, the marketplace is full of ideas and voices out there, and you need to separate the wheat from the chaff. I think the truth of the matter is, there's a debate going on out there. It may be a lopsided debate, it may be that more scientists believe one way than others. But I think a lot of climatologists now are coming to the fore and saying, you know, let's take a step back here. The UN, the IPCC's numbers are not kind of, the forecasting they made with the models are not kind of falling into place. Maybe there's something wrong with the model, let's rethink. Again, I think the debate is healthy. We're going to come up with policies that are going to be very expensive, whether it's cap and trade legislation, whether it's trying to get renewable fuels, like an ethanol program out there for the sake of global warming. We ought to be careful about what we do, because it's going to have long term ramifications economically, and may not have a lot of benefit when it comes to cleaning up the air.

MAX ROTH, FOX NEWS 13: But if it literally is 3 percent of scientists saying one thing, 97 percent saying another, is it fair to give those 3 percent 50 percent of the debate? It seems like that's what's happening. How do you say otherwise?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I don't know if that's the case. I mean everybody has a voice, and you know, science really is the debate of the minority. You know, most people have consensus all the time, and then some scientist comes up and says, hey, you know what? I found a new thing, I've got a new breakthrough. And it goes against the norm. And so clearly we don't have things being proven. There may be consensus of thought and idea, but I don't think anything is proven.

MAX ROTH, FOX NEWS 13: So ice caps melting, the arctic

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Ice caps melting in the north, and growing in the south.

RICHARD PIATT, KSL-TV 5: No glaciers in glacier national park?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Again, I think there's a lot of factors, there, Max, that need to be considered. Ice caps shrinking in the north but growing in the south. The fact that our last eleven years has been cooler than it's been warmer. Again, I'm not taking a position on man caused cataclysmic warming, I am just saying that the debate is raging. And the latest polls show that half of America believes one way, and the other half believes the other way. That's why I'm going to have, in January, a real debate, and we'll bring in scientists on both sides, and let's debate the science. I don't care which way we go, I think we just need to understand. And I think the public is very confused. Maybe the science, maybe they feel good, but they're not getting the word out to the public, because the public is very confused on the issue.

elizabeth Ziegler, KCPW: Governor, you say that we should be careful, but wouldn't it be careful to listen to the majority of scientists?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, again, that's why we have the debate, I guess. I've heard, people I have great confidence in, that believe the science is conclusive and the debate is over. I see the marketplace, and I see the debate is raging, and I've talked to other good scientists, you know, smart people, that think it is not conclusive, and that man is not causing cataclysmic global warming. The debate really is this, to me. One, is there climate change? I agree, I think there is climate change, and I think that is something most everybody agrees to. So maybe that part of the debate is over. Does man cause impact on his environment? I think that's true, we do have impact on our environment. We pollute streams, we pollute air, you know, we've polluted the landscape. The question that becomes a little more difficult, though, is does man cause global warming? And if so, how much impact does man have on global warming? Then the next step is, and what can we do about it? Can we make a difference? Do we really have, does man have that much impact, and can we change what we're doing to reverse the impact we're having? And then the last thing that nobody talks about too much is, and what is the cost to the benefit? Again, I can just illustrate when I was a county commissioner we burned oxygenated fuel in Utah County. We spent about $4 million a year on the increased cost of oxygenated fuel that had virtually no benefit on the air quality. And so if we really cared about the cost to benefit we'd have taken that $4 million, given prenatal care, flu shots, been intersections, we could have really done something to help people's health. But we really just kind of wasted the money. I see the same thing with ethanol.

ROBERT GEHRKE, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: Two months ago we asked you whether you were going to be supporting the ethics initiative that is being circulated, now. You said you were going to listen to both sides. Have you listened to both sides, and have you decided how you're going to

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I have, in fact I've done more than just listen to both sides, I've actually had an independent review of the initiative petition itself. And although I support the goals of ethics reform, and the fact that we need to have ethics at the highest level, I think this initiative petition, in spite of the passion and the zeal and the good intentions of the sponsors has got flaws in it that need to be reviewed. Statutory Constitutional issues, due process, I think most attorneys that are reviewing this now that have no AXE to grind are saying the petition itself, which as it becomes law, would present some significant issues for us as a state. So I would hope- - Again, I think the legislature at least ought to get hold of this issue. I'd like to see them pass some, again, more meaningful ethics reform in the upcoming legislative session to address it themselves. I know they had five ethics bills last session, which had an attempt to address some of these issues. I think they can do more, and I would rather have a good law on the books that has good ethics reform than a bad law that's put on the books that has Constitutional challenges.

GLEN WARCHOL, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: Who did this independent review for you on the ethics initiative?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I have some attorneys that work for me, and in my office as well as outside the office, and it doesn't matter who they are. They're giving me good advice.

GLEN WARCHOL, SALT LAKE TRIBUNE: Are you going to issue that report publicly?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: There's no report. It's just I've gone through the initiative petition myself, I've had reports given to me by attorneys that listed down what they thought were potential problems on Constitutional issues, due process issues. I don't like the idea that you're guilty until you prove yourself innocent, so I think that puts jurisprudence just backwards of how we believe it to be here in America. We are innocent until you're proven guilty. So there's some things about the process, here, I think need to be thought through. So again, I think all of us, like motherhood and apple pie, we want to have ethics and transparency, and I think we need to address those issues, and I'd like to see the legislature take a firm hand on that.

RICHARD PIATT, KSL-T: Governor, speaking of the scientific community, medical research has shown that the flu shots are effective in preventing the flu, there's a lot of talk about the swine flu and the regular flu going around. Are you, yourself, going to get a shot? Are you being advised to get a shot? GOVERNOR HERBERT: You know, I certainly support the efforts to be a flu fighter. In fact, I will be a part of the fight the H1N1 effort. And a lot of it's just common sense of washing your hands and coughing in your elbow, and being careful with your hygiene, and if you're sick stay home. And I believe that the research has been done on the swine flu vaccination. I understand we don't have quite as much as we'd like to have, but I think everybody needs to analyze what they need to do. Some are resisting that, thinking it hasn't had enough testing done. I don't believe that, I think there has been enough testing. But they ought to consult with their family physician and make their decisions. But we need to be careful with the spreading of flu, as we are at any time. And I think the good news is the H1N1 doesn't appear to be quite as bad as we originally thought, but still we need to be very cautious because people die from the flu, and they're dying from H1N1.

RICHARD PIATT, KSL-5: Are you a priority group? Are you going to get one?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I don't know if I'm in a priority group, but we'll make arrangements with my family physician to go through that process and get a flu shot.

ELIZABET GIEGLER, KCPW FM 88.3: Governor, why haven't you decided to support congressman Jim Matheson's rid act?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, you know, I do support congressman Matheson's rid act, which is co sponsored by Jason Chaffetz, so we have a bipartisan effort there. I support keeping foreign nuclear waste out of the country. For me it's a capacity issue. I don't think that we want to use up our limited capacity by storing foreign waste. The state has already testified on that issue before I came on, and so I support the efforts there. I've indicated as such to congressman Matheson, and congressman Chaffetz, and I think the emphasis needs to be on the congress men to get that through. I know it's been there for over a year, and they need to do what they need to do with their colleagues to get that passed.

RICHARD PIATT, KSL-TV 5: When it comes to transporting nuclear waste, or any kind of hazardous waste for that matter, there's always a concern about an accident. A couple of weeks ago, or a week and a half ago, Energy Solutions had a truck at the cleanup site in Moab that tipped over going 3 miles an hour, a container with a top on that was supposed to be sealed. That top came off, the load spilled on the ground, it's a low level deal, but does that image cement your belief that there's a concern about transporting this waste, especially high level stuff?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, it certainly does in that one instance. I mean I think we have the capability to transport this waste in a safe fashion, and whatever happened there that caused that to tip over is puzzling to me. Now, how can a tractor trailer tip over at 3 miles an hour? And the more troubling concern is that the top popped off. So again, I expect the fact that it's low level, and I mean the stuff, there's 16 tons of it right around that same area that was the same kind of consistency, open and exposed to the air, so it's probably not a big issue. But it does cause me concern that if we transport things, at least that Energy Solutions was transporting, the top pops off, tells me we don't have the capability of doing it, we just make sure that we do do it. And in this case it wasn't happening. So that has caused me concern.

MAX ROTH FOX 13: There was a debate over a proposed sex education bill. The bill wasn't actually complete and ready to be debated yesterday, but still on the hill a debate about that. What do you think about this idea that legislators are presenting to have this two track sex education program?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, I don't know all the details, max, about what the two tracks are, but I do know that parents need to be parent. The responsibility for sex education first and foremost resides with the parents or guardian. And we have to hold their feet to the fire to teach their children about sex education. That being the case, if, in fact, there is a second track, you know, if there's an opportunity in school to be taught sex education, with parental CONSENT, you know, if they're going to say look, we need some help with this difficult subject and we want to have the school to help us, and they've got a class, if they sign off and give permission I don't have a problem with it.

JENNIFER DOBNER, ASSOICATED PRESS: Governor, yesterday there was news that the school trust lands administration may have accelerated some bonuses to executives. I'm wondering what your reaction to that is, and if there's something you think the state should do about it.

GOVERNOR HERBERT: Well, in fact, we'll be looking into that in some detail as we go through our own budgeting process. That's already being scheduled, it does cause me significant concern. I think the recommendation, or the decision on the budgeting process by the legislature is very clear, and that is that no bonuses will be given in fiscal year '10. And so the fact that they somehow have found a way to circumvent that is troubling to me, and I know they accelerated so that they've had two bonuses in the same year so they wouldn't have to give a bonus in the year they were told not to. And I think that strikes at the intent and the spirit of what they were trying to do. Particularly at a time when the economy is struggling, we're all having a hard time, we're talking in terms of layoffs in the private sector and the public sector, RIFS, furloughs, you know, cutting back, it's just not good form. And so it causes me a concern, and we will ask the tough questions when we have the opportunity.

RICHARD PIATT, KSL-TV 5: Are you disappointed?

GOVERNOR HERBERT: I am disappointed. I guess in answer to the question. I am disappointed. I know the people at the SITLA, I know their board of directors. They're good people, and we ought not to forget the good. People make mistakes and have bad judgment, but they've taken a fund, as it were, with SITLA, state trust lands, they've taken it from two or $300 million to nearly a billion dollars in assets, and we now have a 20 to $30 million a year stream of revenue that comes out of that fund into education. So they've done some good things, and part of the reasons that's happened is because they've incentified their members with bonuses. You do good, we'll reward you. And so I understand the argument, and I see the success. This was just not a good time, and this clearly, I think, quite contrary to the legislature's wishes, which I'm disappointed.

DAN BAMMES, KUER: All right, thank you very much, Governor Herbert. We appreciate your coming here today. A transcript and audio of this news conference is available at KUED.org.

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